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Memorable Topics – Threads and posts that are just too good to lose => Plant Information and Portraits => Topic started by: Afloden on July 17, 2008, 01:43:50 AM

Title: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 17, 2008, 01:43:50 AM
Hello,

 Here it is finally. A pictoral guide to the species of Polygonatum, or at least those that I grow that have flowered, been dissected, and put under the dissecting scope to look at the nasty bits.

 I'll do it alphabetically starting with an eastern North American native, biflorum in its many guises that now include a  puzzle of synonomy with a plasticity of variation that baffles me and obviously several other people who have written papers on it. It seems the current consensus, circa 1940 something, (besides researchers not finding any consistent morphology that would lead one to more than one species) is that ploidy levels are the cause of the variation.

 The pictures start with some from Kansas. These are somewhat uniform, but two are distinct in "feel" and would be included under the name commutatum, yet is now P.b.commutatum. The first five are all of one clone that was native on the property where I once gardened.

 The next is another from Kansas from a woodlot a few miles away that was somewhat smaller altogether with less flowers. And the one immediately following is also from there, but is a dwarf that has yet to reach larger than 40cm in height and has pencil thick rhizomes with short internodes.

 The last are all from Tennessee taken in situ except for the rhizome shot. These are large plants for the most part with stems easily to six feet with leaves 25x15cm.

 Aaron
 
P.biflorum198.JPG
P.biflorum 240.JPG
 P.biflorum 249.JPG
 P.biflorum 424.JPG
 Polygonatum_biflorum_JOPCO-KS_rhizome.JPG
 P.biflorum066.JPG
 Polygonatum_biflorum_thin-leaved_KS.JPG
 Polygonatum_biflorum_BlountCo_LittleRiverRd_TN.jpg
 Polygonatum_biflorum_GIANT_KnoxCo_TN.jpg
 Polygonatum_biflorum_GIANT_rhizome_KnoxCo_TN.jpg


 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 17, 2008, 01:57:30 AM
Here is one more from TN, and then..
 
 The TN plant here is fairly typical with a few flowers per leaf axil and not too tall.
 
 I have many more, but not all have photographs. I spent several hours dissecting about twenty clones of P.biflorum and making line-drawings and taking measurements. So much variation even within a population!

 The next four are Polygonatum cryptanthum. Not much to say about this one. It is in the series Bracteata, a somewhat closely related group of plants. This one has cinnamon-like fragrant flowers.

 Then several Polygonatum cyrtonema. It is a nice species and not what people typically sell as cyrtonema, but a razor blade and a dissecting scope says otherwise. The filament details are very important! I do believe P.arisanense is a different species from what I have seen, but I do not grow that plant yet. This almost looks evergreen with thick textured leaves. It does not offset too frequently for me with most plants still only producing one stem each season, some after 8 years.

 Aaron

Polygonatum_biflorum_Mt-Road_CampbellCo.jpg
 Polygonatum_cryptanthum243.JPG
 Polygonatum_cryptanthum 247.JPG
 Polygonatum_cryptanthum_DSCN0042.JPG
  Polygonatum_cyrtonema__Purpleleaf_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_cyrtonema_CY_S-74_3.JPG
 Polygonatum_cyrtonema_CY_S-74_13.JPG
 Polygonatum_cyrtonema_CY_S-74_14.JPG
 Polygonatum_cyrtonema_PURPLE_peduncle.jpg
 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 17, 2008, 02:13:52 AM
Continuing...

 Here are some of Polygonatum falcatum which happens to be a really nice Japanese species. The first are the silver striped selection offered by Asiatica.

 The next (mixed with silver striped form) is one that Hinkley (Heronswood) offered a many years ago as said species and then questioned the identity thinking it may in fact be stenanthum or macranthum. I have read elsewhere that stenanthum is the incorrect name for macranthum. Which is correct? I don't know yet, but I do know that what Heronswood sold is falcatum because the filaments are identical to those in a paper on the filaments of the Japanese species.

 The next are Polygonatum filipes. This is a superb species from China with short stems rarely more than 20cm long, but most of that is parallel to the ground. The abaxial leaf surface is densely pubescent. The nicest part of the plant is the extremely long pedicels with an abundance of white tubular flowers. It has fragrance similar to that of odoratum, if I remember correctly.

  Polygonatum_falcatum_ SilverStripe_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_falcatum_DJHC.jpg
 Polygonatum_falcatum_HC970662_1.JPG
 Polygonatum_falcatum_HC970662_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_falcatum_HC970662_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_filipes_Blom3.JPG
 Polygonatum_filipes_habit3.jpg
 Polygonatum_filipes_S-69CY_11.JPG
 Polygonatum_filipes_S-69CY_3.JPG
 Polygonatum_filipes_S-69CY_5.JPG


Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 17, 2008, 02:23:58 AM
Here is Polygonatum hirtum in a few differing forms.

 The dwarf really is dwarf and vigorous also. I thought it may be another closely related species that had be synonomized, but it was completely identical to my other P. hirtum which all fit the key nicely.

 The hirtum as obovatum may be distinct. It did not flower this spring when I was dissecting so maybe next year.

 The second group of five are Polygonatum humile, another of the commonly available species. It has cinnamon fragrant flowers and spreads quite vigorously. The last two are of a humile from Jilin Province collection by a friend. They may look like humile, but the rhizomes are distinct in being very thin, 1-3mm, with long internodes and have the strange habit of coming out of the ground and then arching back into the ground. I got no flowers this spring after my transplant from Kansas to Tennessee so maybe next year I can confirm the identification.

Polygonatum_hirtum_ Dwarf_3.JPG
 Polygonatum_hirtum114.JPG
 Polygonatum_hirtum_ Dwarf_4.JPG
 Polygonatum_hirtum_Bush_as-obovatum_1.JPG
 Polygonatum_hirtum_Bush_as-obovatum_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_humile2.JPG
 Polygonatum_humile3.JPG
 Polygonatum_humile.JPG
 Polygonatum_humile_ Jilin_Waddick.JPG
 Polygonatum_humile_Jilin_2008.jpg




 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 17, 2008, 02:35:08 AM
Continuing again...

 The first is that hideous variegated form of P.hybridum.

 Followed by two of P.inflatum - another of the bracted species. This one is Cheju Giant as offered by Plant Delights. Not sure what is giant about it, but I guess I'll give it more time.

 Then several of the beautiful Polygonatum kingianum in the pink and orange forms. The only bad thing about this species is that it needs something to climb on to stay upright. Otherwise you end up with a mass of stems mounded up on the ground all connected to one another by way of the cirrhose leaf tips. And another year of the "pink" "kingianum" that is white flowered in 2010!

Polygonatum_hybridum_'Barkers'_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_inflatum_ChejuGiant.jpg
 Polygonatum_inflatum_ChejuGiant_habit.jpg
 Polygonatum_kingianum_flowers.jpg
 Polygonatum_kingianum_habit.jpg
 Polygonatum_kingianum_lf-juv-stem2.jpg
 Polygonatum_kingianum_newshoot.jpg
 Polygonatum_kingianum_pink-yellow.jpg



 

Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 17, 2008, 02:55:59 AM
And the last for the night...

 The first few are lasianthum from Japan and Korea. This is really nice species, but can run around quite a lot with its long rhizomes. The flowers are held out under the leaves on long pedicels (native to rainy areas?) and are fairly large and fragrant like odoratum.

 followed by a picture of the flowers of macropodum. Sorry no stem or leaves. I just got this from a friend and the plant looked awful, but the flowers continued. This is what I believe most offer as cyrtonema, but since I have yet verify it I cannot say for sure. The flowers are fragrant, but I forget what like. It was very sweet if I remember right. It is a large plant to 1m.

 The next is the common multiflorum, and its mutant "Multifide" which may be "ramosum." Forms like this have been reported several times in pubescens and biflorum, but ended up as herbarium specimens.

 Then there are a few of P. nodosum. This is another small plant, <20cm, that grows mostly parallel to the ground. It has large flowers, 4cm, for its size. No fragrance that I can sense. It makes a nice low plant with really attractive leaves when not eaten by slugs.

Polygonatum_lasianthum_HC970391_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_lasianthum_HC970391_3.JPG
 Polygonatum_lasianthum_HC.JPG
 Polygonatum_macropodum_CY.jpg
 Polygonatum_multiflorum4.JPG
 Polygonatum_Mulitifide_2008_DSCN0052.JPG
 Polygonatum_nodosum_CY_habit.jpg
 Polygonatum_nodosum_flower.jpg


 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: fermi on July 17, 2008, 04:22:07 AM
Aaron,
excellent work!
Thank you for your time and effort!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Brian Ellis on July 17, 2008, 09:24:16 AM
A most interesting and informative thread Aaron, the Polygonatum Kingianum are most attractive, I must look out for them. I look forward to seeing more?  :)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Giles on July 17, 2008, 10:17:00 AM
Opened my eyes!!!
Thankyou, Giles
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Carlo on July 17, 2008, 11:34:38 AM
Great resource Aaron...how about we do more of this everybody?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on July 17, 2008, 11:43:49 AM
Aaron! Fantastic, just the thing which makes this forum so good! Many thanks, indeed. 8) :-*
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Paul T on July 17, 2008, 12:45:14 PM
Aaron,

So many species!!  I had no idea there were so many of the genus, particularly as I know there are others that you haven't shown there yet.  Pretty much everything there has better flowering than I've ever seen in the genus, and some of the colours. :o  Beautiful!!  :D

Thanks so much for putting these up in one place.  Hopefully it can be added to an become a great reference for future use by all.  Great job!!  8)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on July 17, 2008, 08:39:29 PM
Yes, thank you Aaron, this is an excellent resource!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lvandelft on July 17, 2008, 09:42:36 PM
Thank you Aaron, this is just what is needing when looking up some information of
some species, when doubts arise what grows in the garden.
Better than a book!  8) And very good informative pictures.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 18, 2008, 01:41:25 AM
Thank you. I am glad what pictures I have supplied can help someone identify things. I always think I take more pictures, but once I get them on the computer I see that I was only thinking of taking "that" picture.

 Here are some more.
 
 The first is one from a friend who collected it in China. It is distinct from the others, but I have no flower photos.

 The next three are a Polygonatum odoratum from Chen Yi under S-66. This has terete branching rhizomes that are about 1-2cm thick and very spreading. It rarely has more than 2 flowers per axil and is non-fragrant. Note the flair of the perianth lobes and the decurrent nature of the leaf attachment point. This provides the angled stem ridges to the variable "odoratum" group. This particular one has an undulate attachment at the leaf and stem and is very distinct from all others that I grow.

 
 The next is P.odoratum Flore Pleno which I assume is a European form of odoratum. Anyone know the origin besides that it has been around a long time.

 And then two photos of prattii. These are from a CBE collection. Prattii is nice, small, durable in this form, with faintly fragrant flowers.
 
Polygonatum_odoratum_ China_Waddick_as-D.aspera_.JPG
 Polygonatum_odoratum_CYS-66.JPG
 Polygonatum_odoratum_CYS-66_flower_2008.jpg
 Polygonatum_odoratum_CYS-66_stem_2008.JPG
 Polygonatum_odoratum_'FlorePleno'_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_prattii_flower_CBE_2008.jpg
 Polygonatum_prattii_habit2_CBE_2008.jpg


 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on July 18, 2008, 09:14:13 PM
Thank you for showing these. I love Polygonatums, but unfortunately sawfly caterpillars eat almost all of them. It's a shame they don't seem to like P. humile which is making a take-over bid.  :-\
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: ruweiss on July 18, 2008, 09:37:53 PM
Aaron,thanks for showing us so many beautiful species of this family which is so underrepresented
in common botanical literature.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 19, 2008, 03:51:00 PM
Here is another part and a few comments on the last.

 I think P.odoratum is represented by several species. P.simizui was recently shown to be different by its terete stem, more leaves per stem, and smaller flowers (Systematic position of Polygonatum simizui (Convallariaceae) based on morphological,cytological and chloroplast DNA sequence data. Botanical Journal of the Linnean Society (2001), 137: 291-296. With 8 figures doi:10.1006/boj1.2001.0481, available online at httpj/www.idealibrary.com). The link does not actually seem to work. I think thunbergii, pluriflorum and a possibly a few others are different enough to be recognized as the species that they were originally described as. I have about a half dozen other P."odoratum" from Europe to Japan and they are all similar but have a few distinct characters that gives them a distinct "feel." I dissected flowers of all those that flowered this year and they are all similar, but distinct. There were two new species described from Korea in the past decade. Both of them were lumped in with P.odoratum previously (Polygonatum grandicaule and infundibuliflorum).

 And now for a continuation of pictures.

 Polygonatum pubescens is the other American native by current accounts. It has abaxially pubescent leaves with smaller flowers, mostly 2 per axil, but looks very similar to P.biflorum. The rhizome is distinct and the leaves are more rounded. It is most common in the mountains and rich woods of the Appalachian regions.

 The third is P.punctatum as received from Chen Yi. I missed the flowers while I was away this spring for a week. I am pretty sure on the ID though. The only thing that is strange is that it does not try too hard to remain evergreen.

 The next few pictures are unidentified species, but with an affinity to;

 1. aff. cathcartii. This did not flower this year, so I could not confirm the ID. The leaves are mostly opposite or alternate at the base, and fairly scabrous if I remember right on the abaxial surface.

 2. aff. fuscum. These were received from a friend and flower the first year and have not since. They were in the verticillate group of species and seem to fit in with fuscum more than any other. The flowers are similar to P.zanlanscianense, but are born individual pedicels without bracts. Maybe next year I'll find out for real.

 Then this is a European form of P.verticillatum which looks very different from the next. It has small white flowers, whorled leaves and is not that exciting or vigorous here.

 Finally, this is what is sold as P.verticillatum Rubrum. Not really red, but pale pink flowers. I don't see how this is lumped into verticillatum. This has a tuberous gingeriform rhizome, not terete, more slender leaves of a different texture, flowers that are larger and probably differing perianth morphology (will have to wait for flowers on verticillatum). Does anyone know the origin of this? I assume Chinese just by the way it looks. It may fit better near sibiricum or erythrocarpum.
  

 Polygonatum_pubescens_abax-lf2.JPG
 Polygonatum_pubescens_PortersCreek_2008.jpg
 Polygonatum_punctatum.jpg
 Polygonatum_sp2_CY.JPG
 Polygonatum_sp_aff_fuscum_ Blom4.JPG
 Polygonatum_verticillatum_ CN_2.JPG
 Polygonatum_verticillatum_CN_3.JPG
 Polygonatum_verticillatum_rubrum_flowers3.jpg
 Polygonatum_verticillatum_rubrum_flowers.jpg
 Polygonatum_verticillatum_rubrum_whorl.jpg

Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 19, 2008, 04:10:23 PM
 I have many more species that are yet to be identified and also many species I am still looking for. For those across the pond you are lucky to have Crug Farm! I am very jealous until I look at the prices. I'll need some grants for study or no more tuition payments before I can afford those.  

 [The last species that I have photos of is Polygonatum zanlanscianense. The first time this flowered I was stunned. The stem was over five feet tall and and filled with flowers. It has done well, but I never get seed. Then I got several more plants that all flowered, but were differently colored. White and purple vs green and purple. I dissected flowers of both this spring and they are both P.zanlanscianese. They must be from differing parts of its range. The odd thing is that Jeffrey's paper on the East Asian Polygonatum says white flowers. His sp. A has some of the same characters (a scabrous peduncle) and the new FOC treatment lists white, purple, and yellow. P.anhuiense and P.kungii are synonomized under this species. ]

7-3-10 -- I must say my concept has changed on this mess.... Polygonatum zanlanscianense was described from a plant sans flowers, but likened to another with flowers, P. trinerve. I believe that P. zanlanscianense should have white flowers, but may have a different valid name in the future. So what is picture here I prefer to call P. fuscum for the time being, well, at least the green and purple-brown flowered plant. The white and purple is distinct in its rhizome, leaf morphology and the overall shape of the perianth -- the former is compressed near the middle and the tepals flare while the latter merely tapers downward and the tepals barely flare out. Under which name this belongs is still unclear to me, but I think P. lebrunii is close. Some herbarium specimens with Wang and Tang annotations match this plant.

 Here is the protologue of P. lebrunii (1) and P. bulbosum (2), so the latter would have priority being named a year earlier:
1 Affine P. ericoideo Levl. sed floridbus dimidio brevioribus albis violaceo marginatis distinctum. Pedunculo communi nullo; floribus 2-6 aggregati, E grege P. sibirici.     Yun-Nan: Sous bois de Tcheou-Kia-Tse-Tong, 2550 m, mai 1912    (E.E.Maire). Juveni Lebrun amore botanicae flagranti et e casu mortali in alpis servato dicatum.

2 E grege P.verticillati. Insigne propter radicem non rhizomatosum sed bulbosam et propter flores parvos, lageniformes, lobis margine coloratis.    Yun-Nan: Paturafes des montagnes derriere Tong-Chouan, 2700 m, juin 1910 (Maire in herb. Bonati, 7471).

 
 The very last picture is a species that has not flowered at any point in the last 5 years, but has the most amazing red pigmentation at the leaf and stem juncture. The leaves are whorled it has a tuberous gingeriform rhizome. This flowered (5-2010) and is the same as the brown and green flowered plant.

 Thanks
 
 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, TN
 TENN (herbarium)

Edit: see also this post on page 4 of this thread:  http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2033.msg140307#msg140307


Polygonatum_zanlanscianense_CY_S-143_1.JPG
 Polygonatum_zanlanscianense_CY_S-143_3.JPG
 Polygonatum_zanlanscianense_CY_S-143_8.JPG
 Polygonatum_zanlanscianense_CY_S-143_10.JPG
 Polygonatum_zanlanscianense_white-purple_flowers3.jpg
 Polygonatum_zanlanscianense_white-purple_flowers.jpg
 Polygonatum_sp-2.jpg
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Staale on July 19, 2008, 08:38:20 PM
A very exciting tread indeed. Thank you, Aaron. I have found good litterature about Polygonatums hard to find, and your postings are an inspiration.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Kristl Walek on July 19, 2008, 11:29:25 PM
Aaron,
I know the years of work you have put into this---and the many hours synthesizing it into this post.

I too am grateful. And perhaps my highest praise is that after reading it, I immediately ran out to the overgrown Polygonatum collection and spent an hour pulling weeds and re-newing name tags.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: ranunculus on August 18, 2008, 08:37:19 PM
A tremendous piece of work Aaron ... and excellent photographs.  Many thanks.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on August 19, 2008, 09:03:13 AM
Thank yopu for your interesting pictures. I have a plant that was eventually thought to be P. zanlanscianense, and it sets
seed every year, in black berries. Would you, or anyone else, like some? Also, can you confirm our identification? It grows to 2-2.4m high and has clasping tendrils at the leaf tips.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Katherine J on August 19, 2008, 02:12:57 PM
Wonderful!!! Many many many thanks!!  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on August 19, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
Quote
It grows to 2-2.4m high
Goodness me... so tall?!!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on August 19, 2008, 08:27:12 PM
Afraid so - and me only 1.6m  ::)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on August 20, 2008, 10:58:31 PM
Hello Anne,

 Sorry classes started this week and I had not been to the site for a week. I ID'd the pic sent to PBS and I thought it would make it to you, but I guess not. Yeah, that looks like one of the forms of P.zanlanscianense that I grow. Two flowers most often per peduncle and the large bract.

 Would love some seed. Mine has never set seed. I think the white and purple forms may have one or two fruits this year.

 Aaron Floden
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: shelagh on September 02, 2008, 12:05:51 PM
I wonder if the devotees of this thread can help me with identification of two plants which may or may not be polygonatums.  I took the photos at Tartu Botanic Garden in Estonia, but they were just in a shady border under a hedge and were not labelled.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on September 05, 2008, 04:42:22 AM
Shelagh,
 
 The first with red stems is an "odoratum" variegated form probably from Japan. This is commonly sold as P.falcatum variegata/um or multiflorum variegata. The Asian "odoratum" have no scent and look different from the European forms. From my flower dissections the filaments, anther, and other details are different so the pluriflorum, maximowiczii, etc may be valid species. Someone besides me should do the "necessary" molecular work to clarify the relationships.

 The second is a P.humile form similar to one a friend collected in Jilin province China and one Tony Avent at Plant Delights sells which may be the same as the former, but under another accession number. It is equally as vigorous as the typical P. humile, but more slender and a few other minor details.

 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, TN
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on October 04, 2008, 11:50:54 AM
Hi there,

I have some Polygonatum species that are not yet included in this guide, so I post them here - two of them are not yet identified, I'd apprechiate any help with that !
I start with P. hookeri, a dwarf species very different but cute. It comes from alpine regions in China and is very tough and hardy, though maybe best cultivated in a pot to apprechiate the flowers in spring.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on October 04, 2008, 11:58:25 AM
Oops, those pics were a bit too large, sorry.

This one is P. curvistylum, a lovely erect chinese species 40 to 50 cm in height. Very trouble free here, and a pure delight.
Sorry for the poor quality of the photos, next year I'll try better ones...

Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on October 04, 2008, 12:01:31 PM
P. pratti has been shown before, but my plant seems much smaller in habit and leaf, although the flowers are quite identical - it might also be not fully grown, as it was flowering for the first time this year - I got it from adhocplants.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on October 04, 2008, 12:04:07 PM
Of P. roseum I have only very bad photos, but I'll post one of them to make a start; this plant reaches some 50 cm here with narrow leaves and pale pink spreckled flowers. More & better photos next year :-)

Update: looks like this species is not roseum but another species - see reply #41 for details
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on October 04, 2008, 12:27:03 PM
To stay with the pink ones, this is a sp. I have not been able to identify, Its mother probably came from Chen Yi long ago, and I got it from a friend - the shoots are about 25 cm, first erect and then arching with pink flowers in May.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on October 04, 2008, 12:29:41 PM
The last one I can show is a more "typical" Polygonatum with flowers of greenish yellow. I have not yet identified it, knowing only that its origin is China. Any advice is very welcome !

Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Carlo on October 05, 2008, 04:33:47 PM
Mickeymuc,

You keep referring to your conditions and what the plants do where you live, but we have no idea where you are. Might help to put location information in your signature like many of the others here do...
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on October 06, 2008, 06:47:06 AM
Hi Carlo,

I live in Munich, Germany, which can be a bit cold in winter, although my garden is somewhat sheltered (I'd say zone 7).
My location is in my profile (available by clicking on my nick), I thought that might be enough - but I can include the location in the signature as well  ;)

Michael
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on October 07, 2008, 11:41:21 AM
Quote
My location is in my profile (available by clicking on my nick), I thought that might be enough - but I can include the location in the signature as well 

Many thanks, Michael, your profile may only be seen by registered Forumists... it is very useful for any reader to see easily where you garden..... 8)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on October 14, 2008, 09:30:24 AM
Here at last are the ripe fruits of Polygonatum zanlanscianense.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on October 18, 2008, 01:46:20 PM
 Michael,

 The curvistylum is really nice. It may be one I have, but has never flowered if I do have it.
 
 The spec. with with pink flowers is extremely nice. I think that may be the most attractive pink flowered Polygonatum I have seen. The flowers look like they are meant for cake decorations! Any scent that you might recall? Not a clue what species it may be. Alternate to sub-opposite leaves with pink flowers like graminifolium does not help that much.

 I think your roseum may be wrong. Roseum should have a glaucous green stem. One character that really stands out are the long narrow rhizomes that can prove to be invasive. Sadly I don't have a picture right now. Maybe next year. Yours looks like the sibiricum/verticillatum roseum mess.

 Your prattii looks like one of the prattii have have that was given to me by a friend who got it from Ron McBeath. It tends to have narrower leaves in whorls in the upper stem and opposite to alternate below. The flowers are also longer and narrower than the "typical" prattii I have from another source.

 The yellow is cyrtonema. I am pretty sure of that as far as the F.O.C. key reads right now. In China there are several other closely related species in the complex that we in the West don't recognize.

 Wow Anne, the fruit on zanlanscianense is really nice.

 Aaron Floden
 Knoxville, TN
 
 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Paul T on November 10, 2008, 10:36:52 AM
Anne,

And last year's crop of those same fruits have resulted in some seedlings growing happily on this side of the world.  Doing very nicely.  8)  Thank you very much for the seed last year.  :-*
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on November 10, 2008, 05:38:02 PM
 :-*
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on March 07, 2010, 01:42:31 PM
Well its been a long while since I added to this and the new season is about to begin. Eventually I'll make it back through and edit my concepts of a few species now that I have seen type specimens of some and acquired nearly all the literature.

 The first was previously pictured as P. punctatum in a previous post, but under Jeffrey it keys out to P. marmoratum. After seeing about 50 herbarium specimens of P. marmoratum (all later annotated as P. punctatum) I can safely say that P. marmoratum is a valid species, but to which genus it belongs is being worked on..... If the other genus is valid. Note its hirsute, red-maculate stem, individually borne flowers (not always), and imbricate vs. valvate tepals. The ovary/style ratio is also equal, both are very short. It also has chartaceous leaves that look like they'll be evergreen, but are deciduous.

 The next I call P. puncatum, but it is not! In FOC this is what it keys to, but it is clearly distinct. I am at a loss as what to call it. It came in the same batch of plants as the above, but this does remain evergreen and only drops old stems after the new have matured. It has similar urceolate perianths, but are white and green, no lilac spotting, and has the short ovary and style of equal lengths.

 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on March 07, 2010, 01:52:17 PM
 Here is another that made it way to me from someone who got it from Lesley Cox in NZ! (what a long trip from its original collection in the Himalayas to the UK to NZ and back around the world) Apparently all material currently in cultivation descends from Grey-Wilsons collection in the 1970's. Polygonatum graminifolium is a nice little species with large flowers of a strange scent, I liken it to the old bubblegums -- the kind that is that pepto-pink and turns to rubber after about 1 minute. It forms a group with P. hookeri, P. quinghaiense, and the synonymized P. pumilum.

 The next is a species collected by Ogisu in China (where specifically?) that is yet to be described. It shares features with inflatum - thick compressed pubescent filaments, and also with omeiense and adnatum - peduncles adnate to the stem ca. 5mm. It may be a hybrid, but it does not key to anything in FOC.  And, here is another clone collected as seed by the Epimedium guru that is the same undescribed species as the Ogisu collection. It is a very attractive species for having the white and green flowers. The stems are purple maculate and the leaves shiny dark green.

 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on March 07, 2010, 02:13:01 PM
I have edited my post with P. "zanlanscianense" on page 2.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2033.msg50232#msg50232

Here are some recent photos showing some other distinctions between these two, both of which I no longer call P. zanlansciaense.

 Note the leaf arrangement, nearly always in threes with thick subcoriaceous leaves. The terminal whorls do vary. The peduncles are triangular with hyaline scabrous wings. The plant is also very scandent in comparison to the next...

 What I called P. zanlanscianense is better called P. fuscum. The leaves of this in comparison to the above are membranous, flacced and in whorls of 4+. I may have a true P. zanlanscianense with white flowers and broadly elliptic-ovate leaves. Hopefully it will flower this year.

 
Polygonatum aff. lebrunii
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 07, 2010, 09:13:40 PM
What a thrill to see my little P. graminifolium on the Forum and so far from home. I sent a few rhizomes to Germany as I recall but it came to me from the nursery of Simon Bond (Thuya Alpine Nursery) in England.  For me it grows to a compact and dense mat about 10-12 cms high and the flowers are larger than but the same colour as those of P. hookeri. I hadn't noticed a scent (shame on me) but will look for it in the spring.

Just yesterday I dug the whole mat, to put in a moister place.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on March 12, 2010, 12:41:44 AM
 Well, the P graminifolium has become quite the world traveler. The flowers are larger than P. hookeri? Where is the hookeri from? The literature says P. hookeri has a perianth 15-25 mm, graminifolium 12-16 mm, BUT literature is not always correct.

 Here are some photos of P. alte-lobatum. This is an epiphytic plant from Taiwan, this particular one is BSWJ 1886. Habit photo and the single flower dissected. Still attempting a mitotic chromosome count. Note the small, abruptly tapered filaments, nearly equal style and ovary, and the imbricate tepals. This aborted all but one flower and had one with the terminal leaf......

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on March 12, 2010, 12:49:23 AM
 And here are some of the Polygonatum "punctatum" ex Chen Yi. It has terminal flowers! Or would these be subterminal since two leaves are borne at the apex? These are very close to what Crug calls P. tonkinense (P. tonkinense is actually a Disporopsis) in appearance, but I am waiting for that to flower. They say their plants have terminal flowers and may belong in Heteropolygonatum, but I prefer to think that Heteropolygonatum belongs in Polygonatum .

 Also note that the inflorescences are held erect above the leaves. The dissected flower shows the length of the filament and the stamen. The filaments are mostly glabrous with a small amount of papillae on the outward side near the stamen attachment.

 Thanks for the edits Maggi!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on March 12, 2010, 01:01:43 AM
Larger than hookeri as I have it Aaron. I'll need to wait until both flower again in 7 or 8 months to compare them but yes, I'm sure hookeri has smaller flowers and shorter stems.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on March 13, 2010, 07:48:37 AM
Another picture of P. multiflorum multifide
and who knows this sp. bought from Chen Yi as P. oppositifolum
and a Polygonatum odoratum var odoratum Variegatum
this is not the Japanese form which I call
Polygonatum odoratum var japonicum Variegatum
as long as there is discussion for the name
this is a collection in the dunes of Holland near IJmuiden

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on March 13, 2010, 12:46:27 PM
Lesley, hopefully my P. hookeri will flower this spring. It has proven to be somewhat difficult to grow, but a friend once again sent more rhizomes to murder. I have given them rich moist soil, which is how he grows it. It came up last year and looked good all season. I would like to see your P. hookeri if P. graminifolium is larger. Chen Yi, which I hear is difficult to order from in AU and NZ, has sent out what is likely the not-a-synonym P. pumilum which is similar to P. graminifolium in gross morphology, but grows in the range of P. hookeri (separated by elevation), is not precocious, and has smaller flowers, 10-12 mm.

 The P. oppositifolium ex Chen Yi is yet another I have not received from her and nothing at all came this year which means I saved some money. Your plant is likely P. cathcartii - the brownish tepal lobes are different and not mentioned in the literature. I would say the probability is about 99% judging by the herbarium specimens I have seen.

 The variegated P. odoratum is nice.

 Here is true P. oppositifolium BSWJ 2537. It can have subopposite leaves proximally. Note the densely papillose filaments near the stamen, but thinner and glabrous above.

 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on March 13, 2010, 01:05:08 PM
I have the same from bledyn

some pics of Polygonatum odoratum var. odoratum RGB 02-303 Duinen IJmuiden
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on March 13, 2010, 01:13:38 PM
I forgot this autumn I can send you seeds from my "P. oppositifolium"
I think rootstock's to US is not easy
I have a few nice selections of "P.oppositifolium"
I will try to find some pictures of them

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on April 30, 2010, 09:44:27 PM
For the discussion of Polygonatum verticilatum
the difference between the European and Asian Polygonatum verticilatum
These are the seed pots of a Belgium collection
near the German border of Polygonatum verticilatum
later this spring I will post the flowers the pictures are not good enough

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 01, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
A Yellow leaved Polygonatum multiflorum
found in my valley

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 03, 2010, 12:32:09 AM
Very handsome fruit on the P. verticillatum :P
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Regelian on May 10, 2010, 08:05:58 AM
Manno, my P. verticillatum never sets fruit!  Does one need two clones to produce set?  And, while we're at it, how long are the seeds viable?  Is this an ephemeral-like seed, needing moist packing, or do they travel well in a dried state?  I want to add some more to my woodland bed, but, as plants are not easy to find, I would like to try with seed.  It's more fun, anyway!  ;D ;D ;D :P
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 10, 2010, 04:42:00 PM
If mine set seed you can have some
In witch one are you interested Botanical or a selection like Serbian Dwarf
best plant the seeds as soon as possible
but it can take 2 years before they germinate

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Regelian on May 10, 2010, 05:04:52 PM
Roland,

that is most kind!  I didn't realise that they could require 2 years to germinate.  Is this the case with fresh seed, as well?  I was hoping to pull together a collection of some interesting Polygonatum species, representing various types.  As I do not have room to go overboard, I hope to find species that have some special feature interest, such as berries, height, different blossoms.  Any favs that you would recommend?

 I have some seedlings of Streptopus  I plan to plant out this Spring.  They germinated very quickly for me (over winter).  I don't know how closely related they are to the Polygonatums.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 10, 2010, 05:29:07 PM
Mostly Polygonatum germinate the second year
but they produce a kind of a very small rhizome under the ground
without a leave the first year
I have the best results with fresh seed but older seeds germinate also
they like a cold period during the winter

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Regelian on May 10, 2010, 06:56:30 PM
Hmm,  that sounds like Trillium.  I've gotten used to this!, although some Trillium will produce a leaf in the first year after sowing, if they are sown fresh in the Summer.  Another patience genus.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 13, 2010, 01:33:51 AM
 There has been a fair amount of work done on seed germination of Polygonatum due to its use as medicine and food. I have followed the protocols and found that 30-60 days cold, followed by 60-90 days warm when the seed germinates and makes a root, followed by 30-60 days cold, and then a warm period again will get the first leaf produced within the first year rather than in two years. Some species may need longer cold cycles depending on their origin, but so far this has worked on many from differing sections. Surprisingly several species have bloomed within three years for me.

 I could recommend many species! I currently have 153 accessions representing 40+ correctly identified species and numerous plants that I have not yet put a name on. I also have several clones of many of the more common species. There is one that is in flower now from Desirable Plants in the UK that they and others call P. roseum, but it is not. The fragrance on it is very sweet and the pink flowers are even better. I'll get pictures tomorrow.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Regelian on May 13, 2010, 01:08:39 PM
Aaron,

that is what I do with Trillium, except that when sown fresh right from the berry, they often germinate warm, then need a rest at cold, followed by warm, when the leaf appears.  Sounds like the same procedure in general.

If you are able to offer any seed, please let me know.  I'ld rather work with seed than plants, simply for the diversity.

Any thanks for having done this thread!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lvandelft on May 17, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
I was given this plant at least 25 years ago by an old Dutch bulb trader who traded very much with Japanese growers. He told me then that he had taken it from there on one of his travels and had it many years in his garden. He said that the name is Polygonatum japonicum Variegatum.
I am not sure if this name is right and when I google under this name I only see different plants.
Would love to know what plant I grow? It is more a rather slow growing and not much spreading plant, unlike most Polygonatum.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 17, 2010, 10:42:27 PM
Hello Luit

Polygonatum odoratum pluriflorum variegatum
for so long as there is discussion about this species
the name Polygonatum falcatum variegatum is absolutely wrong
the leaves are not falcate I wil post a picture from P. falcatum tomorrow
The European Polygonatum odoratum var odoratum is in my opinion
an other species or subspecies because the flowers and berries are much
bigger the plant develops much later and is much more perfumed

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 18, 2010, 01:31:25 PM
Roland,
 
 I agree. The European and the Asian "odoratum" are distinct plants, but similar overall. The current name would be P. odoratum var. pluriflorum "Variegatum." I think, if I have checked all the names, that this will become P. japonicum when the genetics and morphology are all worked out. I do have a single fragrant Chinese plant now, but it is the papillose leaved form with lightly, gardenia scented flowers - very distinct from the baby powder European P. odoratum.

 Here is a photo of what Desirable Plants sells as P. roseum collected from the Kanchenjunga in Nepal/Tibet(?). It is a small plant and NOT P. roseum. I do not know what it is and have not seen an herbarium specimen that looks like this plant. The small flowers, 8-10mm, are highly fragrant, but short lived. Ron McBeath lists a lot of plants with SBQE collection numbers which this little roseum (310) has attached to it. So, it would seem that this was collected in Qinghai, China, unless the collection trip covered a lot of ground.

 Aaron Floden


 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 18, 2010, 02:15:14 PM
Hello Aaron

Still a nice plant specially if it is perfumed
I will post later some pictures of the Dutch P.odoratum
If you want I send you this winter some plants witch I collected in
the dunes near IJmuiden

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lvandelft on May 18, 2010, 06:33:11 PM
Roland, great to have at last a name for this plant, but after reading Aaron’s reply I probably better wait with renaming.
After all P. japonicum Var. is much easier to remember, isn’t it…  :-\

Toch bedankt!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 18, 2010, 07:49:52 PM
Hallo Luit

This can take an other 25 years
Everybody is selling this one as Polygonatum falcatum Variegatum
Even the jury in Paris last weekend came to me to ask the true name
of this Polygonatum falcatum Variegatum
One of the exhibitors brought it in for a merite
again after looking for it it was  Polygonatum odoratum pluriflorum Variegatum
so till it is in the plant finder under another name I keep this name

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lvandelft on May 18, 2010, 10:40:27 PM
Roland, I will keep both names for the time being.
Never had P. falcatum Var.
Forty years ago I bought P falcatum, which later became P. humile.
I know it is P humile, but getting older, often the wrong (falcatum)  name comes first when I see the plant. ::)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 19, 2010, 04:48:43 AM
From nurseryman Leo Blanchette, who has made a focus of growing a number of rare Polygonatum species and cultivars, I received Polygonatum acuminatifolium a couple years ago.  While dwarf growing to about 8-10" (20-25 cm), it has unusually large and plump white, green speckled flowers.  I have photographed this thing so many times, and the photos always come out terrible; but today on a cool overcast day, I finally got some good images.

Polygonatum acuminatifolium in Flora of China:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200027841
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 19, 2010, 07:18:29 AM
Beauty's mark

would love to swap with some real P odoratum var odoratum
I don't have this one in the collection

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on May 19, 2010, 10:13:02 PM
I once had a variegated form of P. humile too, but lost it in a garden move, not getting it replanted soon enough. P. humile is only about one third the height of P. falcatum, for me anyway.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lvandelft on May 19, 2010, 11:14:41 PM
From nurseryman Leo Blanchette, who has made a focus of growing a number of rare Polygonatum species and cultivars, I received Polygonatum acuminatifolium a couple years ago.  While dwarf growing to about 8-10" (20-25 cm), it has unusually large and plump white, green speckled flowers.  I have photographed this thing so many times, and the photos always come out terrible; but today on a cool overcast day, I finally got some good images.
What coincidence. When I was taking pictures of Hosta (many bred in USA) this Monday (see Weekly Flowershow Lisse) I was thinking about Leo Blanchette.
He once visited our nursery and we had nice conversation about many different plants I grew here and he told me that he had a great collection of Hosta and was searching more plants for shade.
Whenever you meet him Mark, give him my regards.
( I hope he still remembers me  ??? , because its rather many years ago....
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 24, 2010, 11:32:01 AM
 Here is another form of P. prattii from a forum member that is far taller and more floriferous than the CBE collection. Unfortunately this one lacks the stronger violet fragrance of the CBE form. The filaments of both are nearly identical -- photo of the non-CBE form.

 The next three are P. orientale (polyanthemum). The first two are the FS364 collection, and the last is a form from the Caucasus.

 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 24, 2010, 12:07:23 PM
Mark,

 That P. acuminatifolium actually looks correct. I may have to order it this fall. Nice sized flowers for the size of the plant. Do you recall a fragrance? My guess, based on related species, would say baby power like.

 Here are some new ones; P. amabile, finally given species status again by Tamura in his 2009 treatment of the Japanese species. An outstanding almost trough sized plant with beautiful leaves (in this form) and fragrant flowers. Plant and dissected flower (saved from a rainy weekend so not quite open).

 And a few from Crug that I won't put names on...yet. The first, a form of their P. tonkinense, is very close, if not conspecific with a plant sent out as Chen Yi's
S-222. The only difference seems to be that the Fan Si Pan, Vietnam plants are evergreen and the CY material is deciduous.

 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 24, 2010, 12:14:01 PM
A few odds and ends;

 P. multiflorum Ramosissimum - the branched form. The flowers are significantly smaller than the typical form. And, strangely enough, this seems to be partially self fertile.

 P. odoratum ex JW, collected near Cheng Du in the 1980's. It has terminal flowers! It also has abaxially papillose leaves and distinct flowers without scent.
 
 And P. sp. ex CY. Not a clue. The leaves are borne opposite, alternate, and 3-whorled, pubescent abaxially, with greenish flowers with purple spots on the lobe margins. Dissected flower included.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 24, 2010, 12:20:03 PM
Hello Aaron

Beautiful patterns from P. amabile
what is left of P. odoratum
I will post later some pictures of my P. prattii ex Chen Yi

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 24, 2010, 12:21:56 PM
 Here are two P. nodosum clones (both can be seen to the left of the P. odoratum in the previous post);

 And some of the cyrtonema mess. I rescind any identification that I have previously called P. cyrtonema until seeing the flower dissected! Flowers of three clones dissected below. The overall plant habits can be seen in the last. The purple plant (dark green on left side of picture), red veins on bottom to right of middle and the other in the upper right quarter of the picture. The latter flowers two weeks before the other two.  
 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 24, 2010, 12:39:34 PM
As promised

Polygonatum prattii  Short form ex Chen Yi

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Regelian on May 24, 2010, 12:54:55 PM
Wow, amazing plants.  Aaron, those diagnostic shots are simply wonderful!  This is simply great.  Thanks for sharing them.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 24, 2010, 01:18:56 PM
Mark,

 That P. acuminatifolium actually looks correct. I may have to order it this fall. Nice sized flowers for the size of the plant. Do you recall a fragrance? My guess, based on related species, would say baby power like.



There is a faint baby powder scent... will check it again today.  Aaron, really been enjoying these diagnostic photos and cut-away photos showing measured floral details... EXCELLENT!

Yesterday there was a New England Chapter NARGS garden tour day, with three gardens on the roster.  Saw some very nice Polygonatums, which I'll share here.

1     Polygonatum - dwarf variegated, at the amazing garden/nursery of Jan Sacks and Marty Schafer (breeders of extraordinary Siberian Iris and so much more).  I'll try and get the name of this, the hosts were very busy with visitors.
http://www.jpwflowers.com/

2     P. odoratum 'Carlisle' - I showed this previously, but here in the garden of Jan & Marty, they grew large blocks of this extra fine low-growing variegated odoratum, which will certainly advance the new standard for variegated odoratums.

3-8  P. macranthum - the holy grail of tall and imposing Poygonatum species, this is a remarkable species, with huge (for a polygonatum) flowers.  Photos taken in the beautifully landscaped garden of Helen and Roy Herald, full of plant treasures.

9     P. verticillatum aff. fuscum - also in the garden of Helen and Roy Herald. 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 24, 2010, 02:49:30 PM
 I hope the diagnostic images will help some with identifications. I have over 500 images now of important morphological features of about half my 154 accessions. The first few were on a white background, but the shadows were too obvious and the depth was not good.  A piece of black felt beneath the flowers enhances the images greatly.

 Roland, what number did CY send that under? I have not received P. prattii from her either. That form is nearly identical to the line drawing in the original publication. It is very nice.

 Mark, the first might be P. amabile "Kon Chiri Shima." Which is a vigorous and highly variegated form. Were the flowers held out under the leaves?

 I have seed of both Roy's macranthum and the verticillatum aff. fuscum. Polygonatum macranthum is a superb species. Based on the flower morphology this is related to an as yet unnamed species from Taiwan and the Taiwanese P. arisanense. The Chinese P. arisanense may be a different species. All have large flowers, long tapered filaments with differing degrees of papillosity, and glossy green leaves. I'll send pictures when I get back to my computer.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 24, 2010, 03:06:26 PM
Hello Aaron

S-146      Polygonatum prattii var. (LiJiang)      
most plants died the first year
but you can have some from different pots in December
They get dormant very late
just help me remember

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 24, 2010, 04:37:09 PM
Roland,
 
 Thanks. The plants to the left of the odoratum are two different clones of P. nodosum/cyrtonema. The size of the plant and the rhizome type seems to be the most significant differences between the two species.

 Aaron

 
 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 24, 2010, 06:17:04 PM
Hello Mark

The first looks most on Polygonatum odoratum var pluriflorum Dai Ko Ga
The second looks what I bought as Polygonatum odoratum var pluriflorum Variegatum Double Wide
but maybe they named it

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: TheOnionMan on May 24, 2010, 06:38:18 PM
Hello Mark

The first looks most on Polygonatum odoratum var pluriflorum Dai Ko Ga
The second looks what I bought as Polygonatum odoratum var pluriflorum Variegatum Double Wide
but maybe they named it

Roland

Roland, I will inquire about the first variegated one and report back, I'm sure they know what it is, I just didn't get a chance to ask them.
The 'Carlisle' form is not the same as 'Double Wide'.  'Double Wide' is taller (45 cm) and the variegation is white, whereas it is a creamy yellowish color and more diffuse pattern on 'Carlisle'.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 27, 2010, 12:15:34 PM
 Here is P. stewartianum (not prattii) CLD325. It is a small plant with enormous quantities of flowers in the lower leaf axils. It lacks any detectable fragrance.

 And here is a comparison of two forms of P. pubescens. One is from an alkaline area on the Powell River northeast of me (about an hours drive) and the other about one half hour west on an acidic hillside with Hepatica americana (with red pistils) and a few other desirables.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 27, 2010, 12:33:57 PM
 Polygonatum kingianum in cultivation have all apparently come via Chen Yi. She offers it as a red form of cirrhifolium, sp. pink, and various other names. I personally don't think any of these are the true P. kingianum. It was described with short glabrous filaments, and purple to rose flowers with broad leaves. It was described from the Shan Hills of Myanmar. The Chen Yi material better fits P. huanum (the red-orange and green) and P. agglutinatum or P. esquiroili... or P. ericoideum!

 Here are some dissected perianths of both of the latter possibilities that I grow that have flowered. I would love to get the true P. kingianum to compare these to. Also I have both collections of the yellow P. kingianum from Crug -- I have yet to flower these, but they are obviously closely related. These all share the gingeriform rhizomes, basal leaves (even when mature) with a silvery central stripe, and the large cylindical colored flowers.

 On scent -- the red form is scented like Tiarella - one of the finest fragrances in the world (imho) and the other is unscented.

 
  
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 27, 2010, 01:19:55 PM
Here are the P. aff. fuscum and P. aff. bulbosum/lebrunii flowers close up and dissected (see discussion on pg 2).

 I'll add the aff. fuscum dissected later! I seem to have missed that photo somehow.
 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 28, 2010, 02:33:00 PM
Hello Aaron                        « Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 02:55:59 AM »

Are you sure of the name Polygonatum_multiflorum4.JPG in reply 5  ???
I think it is P.biflorum or a hybrid
the flowers are to big for a Polygonatum multiflorum
after the weekend I will post different Polygonatum multiflorum pictures
I have to build up my last spring show stand today

And some pictures from bought as Polygonatum punctatum ex Chen Yi
and Polygonatum oppositifolium ex Chen Yi

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: julian on May 31, 2010, 10:23:44 PM
Hi!
Returning to the little plant sometimes wrongly labelled roseum. I suspect that Kanchenjunga may be a red herring. We (Desirable Plants) had it on the understanding that it was from a KEKE collection, but we never had a number. It seems identical in every way to one of the SBQE plants, and I'm starting to suspect that someone mixed the origin up.
Incidentally, it's self fertile.
Julian
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 31, 2010, 10:47:10 PM
Hello Julian

Do you have information about the SBQE plant
and if possible pictures

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on June 01, 2010, 07:50:44 AM
Roland,

 In response to the P. multiflorum -- I believe your right. That plant is one of my P. hybridum clones. You can see the angular stems on it.

Julian,
 
 The plant you offfer looks like two of the three clones of the SBQE collection I have. The third clone I have has more narrow leaves. The plant from you has flowered and it has fruits, the SBQE plants have not yet flowered for me, but I have seen photos of it in flower and it has the same little pink flowers with recurved tepals. If the plant is a KEKE collection do you know which number? Are there corresponding herbarium specimens? I am still trying to find the actual collection information for the SBQE collection also.

 It is my understanding that P. hookeri and P. graminifolium are also self fertile, but I have only flowered both once and cannot keep P. hookeri alive for long. This plant I would assume is somewhere closer to P. prattii, but clearly distinct.

 Aaron




 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on June 01, 2010, 10:00:36 AM
Welcome to the Forum, Julian, good to  have your contribution.

Good luck with sorting out the collection numbers/details, Guys!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: David Nicholson on June 01, 2010, 11:04:13 AM
Welcome Julian good to have another 'local' on the Forum.

For those who don't know it here's a link to Julian's Web Site.

http://www.desirableplants.com/page2.html
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: julian on June 02, 2010, 08:26:14 PM
Hi! Thanks for the friendly welcome.

Roland - Sorry, I don't have a picture of the SBQE plant, but I'll try to take one soon.

Aaron - we were never given a KEKE number with that plant, we were simply told that it was from a KEKE collection. But I think the person we had it from got it in turn from Ron McBeath. These together add to my suspicion that it was actually an SBQE collection, and KEKE came in only in a moment of forgetfulness. We could probably check that by going through the original KEKE collections list. Sorry, I seem to be adding doubt not enlightenment here.

We have a few plants which haven't been pictured here yet, I think (forgive me if I've overlooked them) and several problems I'd appreciate views on. To start with, here's a yellow(ish) flowered so-called kingianum we had from Crug about 7 years ago. They told us it's NOT one of their own collections, and strongly implied that it wasn't bought in from Chen-Yi or similar. Notable for really good coppery brown young foliage if grown in reasonably good light, which lasts beyond flowering. Although it's got really cirrhose tips and will be semi-scandent given the chance, the stems are self-supporting even when grown in pots (see Aaron's earlier comment). Mind you, the Chen-Yi plant stands up in pots here, as well. Anyone have any experience of this plant or know its origin? Hope I've discovered how to attach photos... Just finished flowering now, so I can't picture a dissected flower.

Julian
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: julian on June 02, 2010, 09:10:56 PM
another attempt at the pictures
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Philip MacDougall on June 03, 2010, 11:30:36 PM
  If any group of plants screams for a horticultural treatment these would be them. It's a bit of a mystery to me. Perhaps no-one is familiar with them as a group. So many new ones from China. Lump in Maianthemun (yes the botanists have done their thing to it ), Smilacina, Disporum, Disporopsis, Prosartes and the numerous variagated selections and you have more than enough for a book. This forum is by far the most informative guide I have seen to them.
  The tall selection in the picture is interesting not only for height, now approaching 14 feet, but also as the flowers start held upright before desceding to the more typical suspended position.
  Polygonatum kingianum
  Polygonatum odoratum  Red Stem
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Philip MacDougall on June 03, 2010, 11:33:31 PM
And a few more.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: johnw on June 04, 2010, 02:08:14 AM
If that's the kingianum you brought us last year we're off tomorrow to buy stilts.

johnw
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on June 05, 2010, 09:01:56 PM
Polygonatum filipes just in flower

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on June 08, 2010, 09:08:35 AM
Just dipped into this thread - what a fabulous red flower on Polygonatum kingianum! Is it hardy outside? I see you have it in a greenhouse.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on June 08, 2010, 09:26:15 AM
Hello Anne

Good to see you here
this one is not completely hardy and is wintergreen
my experience  is that if they are outside they hardly flower
because there growing season is to short

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on June 08, 2010, 01:01:47 PM
That explains it. It looks very exotic.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Jim on June 08, 2010, 02:45:12 PM
Hi Anne and Roland,
I have been growing two clones of the red kingianum outside for years and have had no problem getting them to flower and set seed. I live on the east coast in the States and it is almost a weed here. I can spare some if you want to try it Anne. Just contact me privately and I can send you some.
Jim
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on June 08, 2010, 03:42:11 PM
Hello Jim

I would love to have some of your clone for the collection
maybe I  just have a bad clone
but I have the same problem with the yellow form
although I still don't believe the red one is a P.kingianum
the leaves are too small and different from the yellow one
maybe Aaron knows

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Jim on June 08, 2010, 04:48:43 PM
Hi Roland,
I'm not sure but I believe the yellow form is from Burma and I have never tried that outside. As for the names, I will leave that to Aaron as well. Contact me off forum and I can send you a piece of one of my clones.
Jim
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Philip MacDougall on June 10, 2010, 01:03:42 PM
Hi Ann, You may be referring to the Polygonatum in my greenhouse. I haven't tried this form outside yet, it's taken 3 years to get this initial growth. Naked bulbs sometimes take a year or 2 off from putting up a growth. I have several similar plants outside,  zone 7b or 8a, no problems. Lots of seedlings coming up this year, they also take 2 years to put up any green. Philip
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on June 10, 2010, 01:20:27 PM
Here's a puzzling, little Chinese species, received back in 2007 and flowering for the first time.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on June 11, 2010, 01:11:06 PM
 What we call P. kingianum may be P. huanum -- the description for that species fits better. Also FOC gives a range of 1.7-5 mm for the filament length and a pink or white perianth. The filaments of Polygonatum are constants and some species can be identified just from them. This range is too great. The white/pink flowered plants may be a different species from kingianum also. Either way the red flowered plant wintered for me in eastern Kansas for 6 winters down to -15F. I would call it fully hardy. There are few species that are not hardy, but I am waiting to try some of the new ones outside until I have divisions or seedlings to spare.

 Not sure what I would call the yellowish one from Crug with the purple/reddish leaves. They say it is from Chen Yi? I have both clones of the plant collected by them in Thailand which may be vietnamicum -- a member of the kingianum complex.

 Julian, thanks for the info on the strange little "roseum" like plant. I am uncomfortable putting any name on it yet, but P. kansuense may be a possibility as other species described from Gansu/Kansu have a broad range into that part of Tibet.

 Phillip, I am intending to revise Disporopsis, Heteropolygonatum, and Polygonatum. I intend to also get to the others in the future. I currently have all the Disporopsis except jinfushanensis and the true fuscopicta, and 156 accessions of Polygonatum not counting my two flats of seed, ungerminated and germinated.

 Bjornar, are the stems hirsute and the leaves pubesent abaxially? 

 Aaron
 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on June 11, 2010, 01:36:55 PM
Bjornar, are the stems hirsute and the leaves pubesent abaxially? 

The stems are glabrous, the leaves are slightly scabridulous abaxially, no more than say, P. nodosum. The big-flowered no-name is also close to flowering again, still only one stem, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on June 11, 2010, 10:42:44 PM
Hello Jim

as promised here the pictures from P.prattii and P.prattii large form

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on June 11, 2010, 10:53:15 PM
Hello Bjornar

Looks very much like Polygonatum zanlanscianense
make next week an other picture with the open flower

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on June 12, 2010, 12:26:09 PM
Roland;

I posted it last year as well, the perianth is too big for it to key out as, well, anything... Aaron thought it belonged somewhere in the stewartianum/fargesii/fuscum complex like you.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on June 14, 2010, 04:34:14 PM
Roland,
 
 The short form of P. prattii is not one I grow. I have a CBE collection/# which is somewhat in between the two you have pictured, and the tall form, but I don't know the origin of the latter.

 Bjornar,

 P.nodosum should not be scabridulous abaxially. My two clones are completely glabrous throughout. The scabridulous leaves puts it in with the verticillatum/kansuense mess.

 The no-name may well be P. uncinatum, which was lumped in with P. kingianum. It has the large flowers and whorled leaves and on a pressed specimen a lot of the character of the living plant can be lost. Does it ever have single broader basal leaves come up from the rhizome?

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Paul T on June 16, 2010, 01:02:07 PM
A 14 foot high Polygonatum with bright red flowers?  :o :o :o  Oh My!!

Does anyone grow this in Aus?  I would just love to see it in the flesh.  It just sounds so amazing, both for the height AND the bright red flowers.

Thanks for a very eye-opening topic everyone.  So very many of this genus around that I have never heard of or seen.  Thank you! 8)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on June 16, 2010, 10:00:57 PM
polygonatum betburg
polygonatum punctatum
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 16, 2010, 10:37:01 PM
Really beautiful foliage on the first one Shaun. The Cyclamen is not bad either. :D
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on June 16, 2010, 10:56:05 PM
Lesley

There are a lot of babies around the cyclamen
maybe if they get dormant he can send you some
here the first seedpots start opening
yours probably in 3 weeks

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on June 16, 2010, 11:02:08 PM
hi lesley
of course i can send some baby cyclamen there is loads of them and they all have the same pewter
colouration..the polygonatum betburg looks grear rising out of them..is it easy to send to nz?
padded envelope do you think?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on June 16, 2010, 11:11:08 PM
Thanks for the suggestion Roland, but no thanks. I'm inundated with unsown seed at present, and in fact there are many fine forms of C. hederifolium here. Have you seen the one on the Southern Hemisphere thread? Posted by Bill Dijk last night, it it GOLD-LEAVED!

Shaun, again, thanks for that kind offer but no. We have very strict rules about plants coming into NZ and to bring in live plants (as distinct from seed) is just not possible nowadays. It's one reason I love the Forum so much. At least we can SEE some of the new things around, even if we can't ever have them. :'(
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on June 16, 2010, 11:17:34 PM
ok i can send seed no problem?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on June 23, 2010, 09:24:47 PM
this is polygonatum zanlanscianense.its about 8 feet tall at moment.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on June 23, 2010, 09:34:38 PM
These Giants are great.... do they suffer as much from the solomon's Seal Sawfly as the ordinary ones do?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on June 23, 2010, 10:44:13 PM
They don't touch mine, even though the 'ordinary' ones had to go because the got ravaged every year.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on June 23, 2010, 10:54:01 PM
Good to hear the giants  seem safe.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on June 23, 2010, 11:10:24 PM
Hello Shaun

You must fertilise them every day   ;D
Mine are just 4 feet tall   :-[

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on June 23, 2010, 11:35:09 PM
hi roland
i just top dress the bed with fish blood bone early spring.and mulch with leafmold..
am becoming so addicted to polygonatum..
maggi they have not been attacked by the sawfly though i have got it on the common
{still beautifull} solomans seal.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on July 06, 2010, 09:40:00 PM
polygonatum filipes is this late flowering?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 07, 2010, 08:00:45 AM
That is slightly later than typical. If it came from Chen Yi this past season (it looks like her recent shipment under S-74, and S-76) those forms were all later than my previous accessions. Mine finished up in late May. I figure next year they will flower at a more regular time.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on July 07, 2010, 08:40:12 AM
hi Aarron
it came from crug this year...
does seem late though..no collection number on this one.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on July 12, 2010, 07:48:56 AM
It also might come from Chen Yi
Bleddyn bought before also from her

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on July 16, 2010, 06:19:41 PM
Three short, pink-flowered species from earlier this summer:

P. roseum
P. graminifolium
...and a no-name.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: TheOnionMan on July 16, 2010, 07:08:38 PM
Three short, pink-flowered species from earlier this summer:

P. roseum
P. graminifolium
...and a no-name.

The first and last ones would make stunning garden plants (the last one :o), I do hope that these showy species become more accessible in the trade.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on July 16, 2010, 07:39:32 PM
Beauty the ono name
you got this one from Chen Yi
or did you buy it elsewhere
I agree with Mark
This one should be more available

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on July 16, 2010, 08:02:29 PM
I bought the no-name from someone who received it from Chen Yi 10 years ago. I've only had it since last fall, but it seems quite vigorous :)

Mark;
I think P. roseum is starting to become more available, it's very much like Smilacina stellata in vigor and habit, making big, loose colonies. I'm happy to send you a rhizome if you'd like, there's plenty of it.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on July 16, 2010, 08:29:00 PM
I find the ono named on the best pink one
I have ever seen
Is the nursery still selling this one
I would be interested to buy a couple

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on July 16, 2010, 09:33:29 PM
Roland;
It's not a nursery I'm afraid, and he doesn't do mail-order, so you would have to pick them up in Sweden... :P As mentioned it seems quite vigorous, so I should be able to divide it in a couple of years time.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on July 17, 2010, 11:39:27 PM
Please can someone explain to me the difference between P. cirrhifolium and P. curvistylum? Thanks.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on July 17, 2010, 11:49:26 PM
Hello annew

P. curvistylum as the name says has a curved style
P. cirrhifolium not

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on July 18, 2010, 12:34:15 PM
Mark, I could maybe do a little bit of P. graminifolum for you later in its season. Would you be able to receive a small, flat parcel?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on July 18, 2010, 12:58:28 PM
Please can someone explain to me the difference between P. cirrhifolium and P. curvistylum? Thanks.


P. curvistylum (http://www.asianflora.com/Convallariaceae/Polygonatum-curvistylum.htm) has leaves that (usually) nod down, and should not have cirrhose leaf-tips. It's flowers are white, pink or purple, and it's relatively rare in cultivation.

P. cirrhifolium (below) has straight leaves with cirrhose leaf-tips that cling for support, and flowers are (I think) usually in shades of green/beige.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 19, 2010, 12:53:52 PM
 My P. curvistlyum CLD761 (ex Edrom) might be the only P. curvistylum I have received, but even the style on it is straight. All the others that have flowered are not curvistlyum. One has scabrous stems, the other is pink flowered and near P. roseum.

 P. cirrhifolium is a larger plant over all also. The flowers on curvistlyum are usually borne singly (1/pedicel) and pink. Their are rhizome differences also.

 Bjornar,

 That roseum is nice. My plants look the same vegetatively, but never flower. It may be a temperature issue for me. Are yours from CY also? It does spread far and wide by rhizomes though, even more so than my one clone of Smilacina stellata.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on July 19, 2010, 01:29:48 PM
Hello Aaron

Is the old name Smilacina valid again ???
see Chinese Maianthemum headache

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on July 19, 2010, 07:18:39 PM
Thank you, friends. What a pity I didn't ask while they were still in flower. :-\
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on February 11, 2011, 12:07:17 AM
The collection information for the P. "roseum" plant offered by Desirable Plants and previously by others is; SBQE1310 -- Sino-British Qinghai Expedition 1997, 1310, 26 July 1999, China: Qinghai:Haibei Zang Aut. Pref. Zhugu Xiang, Dongxä village. Latitude: 37° 7' 8'' N , Longitude: 102° 18' 59'' E.

  The voucher specimen is housed at RBGE. I am still unsure of the identification, but I should have a clearer answer come spring. I recently saw P. kansuense in the herbarium at Missouri Botanical Garden and cannot see how that species is in synonymy with another. The pubescence on the stem and leaf abaxial distinct.

 More to come... finally.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on February 11, 2011, 11:10:50 AM
Excellent, Aaron, thank you.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Johan Nilson on February 12, 2011, 05:44:37 PM
Thanks a lot all of you for excellent pictures and info on this very interesting genus!

Here are some Polygonatum pictures from Gothenburg Botanical garden last summer. Hopefully someone can help me with identification.

(Changes made after Aaron's suggestions)
1-3 Polygonatum sp. from S Korea (P. odoratum)
4-5 Polygonatum sp. from Shanghai (probably a species within the fuscum group)
6-7 Polygonatum prattii (KGB-540) (P. stewartianum)
8 Polygonatum sp. (P. prattii)

Johan
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on February 15, 2011, 09:33:37 PM
Johan,
 
 The sp South Korea will have to go into the P. odoratum as currently circumscribed. I really think there are several taxa involved, but I am still unsure of the characters that may separate them. I do have a clone similar to this in cultivation.

 The Shangai sp is strange. Likely in that fuscum group. Would like to know the origin other than Shanghai.

 The KGB-540 is P. stewartianum. Looks like they are using the old Jeffrey key where he mixed the true prattii with P. cirrhifolium and accepted P. delavayi as the valid name.

 The last is a form of P. prattii. I received rhizomes recently of a plant that looks very similar to this and cannot wait to compare it to my other three clones. It is more variable than I thought.

 All the best,
 
 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on February 15, 2011, 09:38:43 PM
Polygonatum geminiflorum is currently in cultivation and the two clones I have seen under this name are vastly different. One is the McBeath collection from the Himachal Pradesh and another is a form I have found out originated at Washfields. When I don't know, but I am hoping someone might have a list that might hint at the origin of the plant that can be seen at http://www.farreachesfarm.com/polygonatum/ (http://www.farreachesfarm.com/polygonatum/) and also at Asianflora.com.

 I have both forms and hope to see flowers this spring, but the origin of the latter would be very helpful. It is most likely of Indian origin and a recent collection from the Sino-Himalayan Plant Association might be the same plant.

 Also, Washfield's apparently offered a form of P. hirtum I have pictured as the dwarf form that is offered by Plant Delights Nursery here in the states. I'd like to know if they listed the origin of that also. I have a feeling it may be the Brian Mathew clone from Greece.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Johan Nilson on February 18, 2011, 05:14:44 PM
Aaron,

Thank a lot for Id's!
This is very helpful!

I will get back to you about the origin of the Shanghai plant.

Johan
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Johan Nilson on February 19, 2011, 11:55:07 PM
Here are some Polygonatums from the wild. Pictures taken in North Sikkim, India 2009. (I have posted this earlier on another thread but thought they belonged here)

as follows
Polygonatum hookerii
Polygonatum cirrhifolium
Polygonatum sp
Polugonatum aff. kansuense??? X2
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on April 16, 2011, 09:07:05 AM
Polygonatum anomalum at locus classicus in Hailuogou, around 3000m altitude.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: annew on April 17, 2011, 10:48:28 PM
Some remarkable plants there - sp 5 looks very interesting with its dark foliage.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on May 01, 2011, 11:52:40 AM
i bought this yesterday foom local alpine show.the label says biflorum?i thought it looked very different.
what do you think any ideas.
thanks.sean
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 02, 2011, 02:53:34 AM
That is Polygonatum pubescens, the other North American species. In picture 2 you can see the little hairs on the back of the leaves. The greenish flowers pinched above the tepals is also characteristic of this species. It should have a cinnamon-like smell at close range; a feature shared with the bracteate species from East Asia.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: arisaema on May 04, 2011, 09:15:26 PM
Polygonatum anomalum in flower :)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on May 08, 2011, 09:00:02 PM
any ideas bought as roseum?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on May 08, 2011, 09:20:37 PM
polygonatum prattii?? polygonatum oppositifolium perhaps?i like the red colouration at the leaf bases.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 10, 2011, 12:47:07 PM
 As best I can tell that does look like Polygonatum roseum. The rhizome on roseum is long and terete, the leaves usually in threes or 1-2.

 That also looks like P. prattii, but prattii is close in appearance to P. stewartianum when immature or not growing vigorously. Prattii usually has spirally alternate leaves except at the apex where they are 3-4 whorled. A full plant picture would be nice.
 
 The last one is strange. A full plant picture would be good as well as what the rhizome looks like and a flower dissected. P. oppositifolium has opposite leaves and long reddish striped flowers. If this is from Chen Yi it is not oppositifolium as that species only grows near Medog, Tibet in China. Is the stem scabrous or pubescent? It looks a little that way. Are the leaf apices cirrhose or not?

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on May 10, 2011, 05:29:09 PM
thanyou aaron.
ok here is the plant i got as oppositifolium chen yi.the one in the pot has been in deep shade so the colouring/red pigment not as good as other.its from same plant though.hope pics help.my true oppositifolium  from crug didnt survive this last winter sadly so will have to buy again >:( the last few pics are the prattii.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on May 10, 2011, 05:32:07 PM
sorry my pics large again ..i was getting the hang of it..oh and aaron the leaf tips arent chirrose and the ste is scabrous i think.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 11, 2011, 02:31:11 AM
 So thats the strange opposite leaved plant from Chen Yi. I still have never received that plant..... Not quite sure what it is. The leaves are very different from cathcartii and griffithii -- the only other two possibilities. I have seen some herbarium specimen images, but none in person. Would love to see the inside of the flowers for the filament details and ovary/style lengths.

 The other plant is not prattii. The plant below is prattii. Your plant does have uncinate to cirrhose apices (more as they mature) and looks like a dark form of stewartianum. Any collection data or is this also Chen Yi?

 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on May 12, 2011, 09:41:29 PM
Hi everyone,

Sorry I haven'T been here for so long....here's a fantastic Polygonatum, sold as "kingianum yellow" by Crug Farms. Last year the shoot had died upon growing, but this year it sprouted properly. Without flowers, but also the brown large leaves are a show. Crug farm says it grows up to 4 m, so mine has still a long way to go  ;)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on May 12, 2011, 09:56:13 PM
Hi Michael, good to see you back!

What on earth are you going to do with a 4m polygonatum?  :o That's huge!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 12, 2011, 10:11:08 PM
Michael,

 Nice to see you again. This Crug plant is strange. The leaves are fairly distinct from the typical Chinese "kingianum" and the yellow form was unknown from Thailand. A red form was the first reported there in the late 1980's early 1990's. It is allied to that group as all of them share  basal leaves with a pale midrib while also having verticillate shoots. The flowers are also large and the chromosomes n=15.

 My plants are about the same as yours, but they multiply prolifically. Still no flowers to help me figure out what this is. Will try to winter a piece of each clone this year.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on May 15, 2011, 06:24:00 PM
Dear Aaron,

I should have known you'd have this plant, too  ;). It's depressing that it doesn't flower, it seems so vigorous! Let's see if one of us may find the right conditions for this. Do you grow yours outdoors? Mine is potted and overwintered frost-free, I din't think it's very hardy.

Maggie, once the plant will be 4 m tall I'll do the same I do with the 2m-plant I got as cirrhifolium, I'll stand beside it and enjoy  ;D
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on May 15, 2011, 06:29:52 PM
Another plant I got with the name P. kingianum turned up this year after having slept one year underground - but as it was the middle part of a rhizome I won't complain. This is the rhizome (from Paul Christian) http://forum.garten-pur.de/attachments/k-IMG_0676.JPG , and that's the tiny little shoot that came out this year. Surely no kingianum, but something I can't wait to see fully grown...in a few years...
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on May 18, 2011, 09:50:49 PM
polygonatum ace 1753
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on June 23, 2011, 11:26:34 PM
There is a polygonatum for identification here : http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7491.0   :-\
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on July 16, 2011, 03:39:09 PM
Another plant I got with the name P. kingianum turned up this year after having slept one year underground - but as it was the middle part of a rhizome I won't complain. This is the rhizome (from Paul Christian) [url]http://forum.garten-pur.de/attachments/k-IMG_0676.JPG[/url] , and that's the tiny little shoot that came out this year. Surely no kingianum, but something I can't wait to see fully grown...in a few years...


Michael

Paul Christians buys his plant from John Amand
And John Amand buys from Chen Yi

what means manny are mixed and wrong named

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: mickeymuc on August 04, 2011, 07:09:10 AM
Thanks for the post, Roland - I had hoped that Paul christian stopped buying from Chen Yi and selling wild collected plants - if I had known I hadn't bought it :-(.
Forunately I have several young kingianums from Aaron - those are surely true to name :-)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on August 04, 2011, 07:58:30 AM
Michael

You can try  Crûg Farm Plants
Bleddyn and Sue have a fantastic collection
If you meet him give him my greetings
its a fantastic couple plant-enthusiasts

Roland


http://crug-farm.co.uk/
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: julian on July 30, 2012, 07:42:21 AM
Sorry to post in a strand that seems a bit dormant, but it seems the right place.
The troublesome Polygonatum sp. Og94047 was discussed back in 2010. Roy Lancaster, back from a trip to China with Ogisu, tells me that Ogisu now considers it to be a distinctive, outlying population of P. acuminatifolium, collected in the Wolong Valley. It was previously known a lot further north east.  They suggest a cultivar name, 'Wolong'.

It's certainly not like the typical species, but I see where he's coming from. And I'm not about to argue with someone with Ogisu's field experience.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on July 30, 2012, 10:21:51 AM
Julian, many thanks for this news. Much appreciated  :-*
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: David Nicholson on July 30, 2012, 12:30:22 PM
A belated welcome to the Forum Julian, it's good to have another South Devon poster to moan about our weather.  It's better in Totnes (Narnia!) than Ivybridge normally though. I've just had to rush round putting everything back into the greenhouse and the garage as heavy showers delay my bulb re-potting yet again.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 31, 2012, 02:29:42 AM

I disagree! I have the Ogisu plant as well as two other collections of this species. I recently had a paper published reinstating the long synonymized P. yunnanense. See below.

http://www.mapress.com/phytotaxa/content/2012/f/pt00058p064.pdf (http://www.mapress.com/phytotaxa/content/2012/f/pt00058p064.pdf)

 I would say that it is allied to P. acuminatifolium, but distantly related. I just recently acquired acuminatifolium and have not yet added that species to the DNA matrix, but I have sequenced Ogisu's collection. Based on cytology (probably n=11, 2n=22 based on specimens reported in lit as P. omeiense not from Mt. Omei), and filament shape and the bracts it is in the same group with acuminatifolium, cyrtonema, nodosum, adnatum, and omeiense. Hopefully DNA will sort out their of the relationships better than distribution and morphology.

 It is a beautiful garden plant with small glossy leaves and relatively large typical flowers.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on July 31, 2012, 10:18:25 AM
Quote
distinctive, outlying population of P. acuminatifolium

Quote
allied to P. acuminatifolium, but distantly related


Oh dear, how condfusing,for a simple soul like myself, these two comments seem very similar :-[ :-\
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on July 31, 2012, 01:13:28 PM
Polygonatum in the alternate group can be group based on filament shape and cytology (n=9, 10, 11). I assume, based on morphology, that acuminatifolium its base number is 11. I have no report of the number yet so I'll set it aside and pull some roots off this week. Yunnanense is similar if one looks at the filaments, but the plant looks very different. McDonough posted some images of it either here or on the NARGS forum. I have some of the Ogisu plant posted in this thread. The small oval leaves are glaucous beneath, lustrous above, not strongly veined and the peduncle is adnate to the stem which is shared with adnatum and omeiense. These three are a Hengduan group of taxa and acuminatifolium is allied to inflatum of NE China/Korea's. See the acuminatifolium filaments in comparison to yunnanense. Similar, but different.

 Yes, confusing, but all the alternate Polygonatum in most peoples minds look about the same; alternate with green and white flowers!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: julian on August 03, 2012, 03:27:44 PM
I'm just watching from the sidelines... DNA evidence will be most interesting. Thanks for the link to your paper - is a revision of the genus imminent?
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on August 03, 2012, 10:05:09 PM
Imminent?!!! Its a ways off, but I'll be publishing changes as I go -- species group by group. DNA so far lends some support to species groups, but nothing at the species level that is well supported. Trying to get ITS to work without fungal contamination. So far I have one marker that amplifies well and I would like to add in about 5-6 more at minimum.

 For instance the kingianum group seems well supported as do the punctatum types. The other alternate species come out as a large group and then there is the mess of verticillatum and cirrhifolium types. Lots of work to do. Cytology is a part of it and ecology as well as some pollination studies. Some of them are self-fertile and these are usually the higher base chromosome species; x=13=15 (and x=16 Heteropolygonatum!).

 Also working on Heteropolygonatum and Disporopsis. So far Disporopsis species seem to have some significant differences and ITS amplifies well.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on January 03, 2013, 12:47:22 PM
To all who might have an interest I have a small website devoted to Polygonatum, Disporopsis, and Heteropolygonatum. It currently has less images than this thread, but those present on it are different. It has links to type specimens, some data of my own, a few maps, links to some papers, and it will be added to as work progresses.

 https://sites.google.com/site/polygonatae/ (https://sites.google.com/site/polygonatae/)

 Enjoy!
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on January 03, 2013, 01:19:54 PM
Great job Aron
still a lot to do
keep us informed

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: manicbotanic on January 03, 2013, 02:21:15 PM
fascinating stuff Aaron..
hope all is well.
sean.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: julian on January 03, 2013, 06:22:09 PM
Excellent! Look forward to seeing how it develops.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on January 16, 2013, 04:21:55 PM
Thus far, the limited chloroplast DNA only supports clades. Very few of the species within clades have any support. Still struggling with nuclear DNA amplification... At least morphology works well!

 But, maybe someone can help me with the origin of Disporopsis pernyi "Bill Baker"? I know that Bill Baker picked it up in a bird market somewhere in China - my guess would be in Kunming or in western Guizhou. Maybe an older paper catalog someone might have, or someone who knew Bill Baker might know more information? I have a second clone of this same plant from a forumist who collected it near Baoshan, Yunnan.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: David Nicholson on January 16, 2013, 05:24:59 PM
Oh dear, my lack of a scientific education. One of these I'll have to learn more.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 06, 2013, 03:09:49 PM
Our surprise (probably wrong-named ) Polygonatum oppositifolium starts growing again
maybe this year we find the correct name

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 14, 2013, 12:39:20 PM
Roland,

 I am still unsure what to call this plant. Jeffrey had it as "sp. B" (I think) in his revision in 1980. His concept was based off of a single collection by Wilson in Sichuan. I think I have this from Chen Yi finally and a specimen from someone here on the forum. I have DNA extracted, but no sequences yet.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 14, 2013, 01:46:43 PM
I have one in a pot for you but forgot to send it
same as P. odoratum collected in the dunes in Holland
to see the different with the Japanese one
Help me remember in November or do you want them in the green
I have time in two weeks after my last show

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on October 29, 2014, 10:09:44 AM
There is a Chinese species  looking for a name here :  http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12411.0 (http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=12411.0)      :)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on May 22, 2015, 08:08:05 AM
Time to raise the dead!

 Here is Polygonatum franchetii in Guizhou a few days ago, sadly not in flower, but the bracts enveloping each young flower are definitive.

 Please send images of whatever you have in flower. I'll ID them if you need.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 22, 2015, 06:32:26 PM
Polygonatum nodosum Red leaf selections
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on May 22, 2015, 06:33:31 PM
Polygonatum nodosum Red leaf selection
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on December 02, 2015, 12:19:17 AM
Three new species just published;

Polygonatum autumnale -- the first described autumn-flowering species seen here in fruit in May 2014 Arunachal Pradesh,

two images of P. angelicum with its white verrucose perigone also taken in AP a few days later,

and P. luteoverrucosum with its yellow perigone.

The formermost is known from a single site in AP, and the other two are known along the eastern side of the Tsiang (Tsangpo) in AP and into Tibet.  These latter two were a serendipitous discovery when our original itinerary was canceled due to the landslides which had closed the road north to our original destination. I had previously only seen bad specimens from Tibet in fruit. In habitat they are separated by elevation with angelicum growing nearly 600 meters higher in elevation than luteoverrucosum.  Also seen on these treks were at least three other species.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on December 02, 2015, 12:23:21 AM
And the true Polygonatum nodosum seen in Chongqing Province, China this autumn.... Nearly all other plants in cultivation with purple leaves or silvery centers are something related to P. cyrtonema.

This is a very small plant with up to about 7 leaves and long nodose rhizomes that were crawling along the surfaces of moss covered rocks and logs.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on December 02, 2015, 10:13:29 AM
Exciting additions to this  topic, Aaron - we are grateful for your  direct experience of seeing these plants in habitat.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: bulborum on December 02, 2015, 10:25:30 AM
The last one DSC_0889 looks a little as the wrong-named Polygonatum oppositifolium from Chen Yi I have

Roland
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 02, 2015, 07:32:05 PM
I have a little (20 cms high) species described as simply with lemon flowers. It's in bud now (SH) and I'll try to get a photo when it's out. It came from a local garden centre who had it from a local nursery which is now out of business unfortunately. Owners retired and no-one taking their place. Such is the way of many or most small, specialist nurseries in NZ.

I also have P. graminifolium in bud.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on December 30, 2015, 12:32:24 PM
News of a new publication from Aaron Floden -  full text not freely available meantime
See pictures in Aaron's post 195  above.


Three new Solomon’s Seals (Polygonatum: Asparagaceae) from the Eastern Himalaya
Article in Phytotaxa 236(3):273 · December 2015 

 Aaron Floden,   University of Tennessee

Abstract

Three new Polygonatum (Asparagaceae) are described and illustrated from the Eastern Himalaya. These species, Polygonatum autumnale, P. angelicum, and P. luteoverrucosum, have opposite leaves and are evergreen. The foremost is the first autumn-flowering species in the genus and is known from a single locality in Arunachal Pradesh, India. Polygonatum angelicum and P. luteoverrucosum are the first species in the genus to be reported with distinctly verrucose perigone surfaces. These two are sympatric in Arunachal Pradesh, India, and Xizang, China, but occur at different elevations. Their relationships to other opposite-leaved species are discussed and a key is provided to these and related species.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Lesley Cox on December 30, 2015, 07:18:46 PM
Just remembered I didn't post my little pale polygonatum here, though I think I did on the Southern Hemisphere thread and there were a couple of suggestions as to what it may be. Perhaps a confirmation (or otherwise) please? Here it is. I think the flowers are pale jade green rather than the lemon which the label said.

It grows to about 30 cms and the leaves are maybe 5 cms long, the flowers about 1 cm long or a little more.

I've been back through the pages of December then November to find the name suggestions but can't find that post, from Jacqui (Parsla) I think. I know my eyesight's getting worse but heck, missing things altogether? I think one suggestion may have been cirrhifolium or something like that.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Egon27 on December 31, 2015, 05:26:19 PM
Hallo,
I have a problem with the naming of Polygonatum. I buy it in China. It is low, about 10-15 cm.
Egon
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on December 31, 2015, 09:34:35 PM
Lesley, very cute little plant. It looks like leptophyllum from the Himalaya, but does the plant get any taller? The verticillate species are somewhat of a mess and I won't be resolving all the taxonomic issues with those.

Egon, that looks like kansuense, a very nice form of it.

 Aaron
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Leena on January 01, 2016, 08:46:36 AM
Lesley, how nice looking Polygonatum. :)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Egon27 on January 01, 2016, 09:31:54 AM
Polygonatum kansuenes is the synonyms of Polygonatum verticillatum. My plant has wider leaves, bigger and nicer flowers and low growth. I'm afraid that it will be difficult to find a good name.
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on January 02, 2016, 02:32:59 AM
Egon,

 Kansuense is a synonym of verticillatum in the Flora of China, but it is a very distinct plant. I have molecular data that shows that it is distinct. It is a low growing plant with usually many outward facing pink flowers and a scabrous stem. I have seen specimens from Nepal north and eastward to Gansu, China. It is very similar to some forms of prattii, but prattii usually has really broadly ovate leaves.

 
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Maggi Young on January 08, 2016, 12:15:52 PM
Aaron Floden has been busy again!

A new Solomon’s Seal (Polygonatum: Asparagaceae) from northern Thailand

Polygonatum costatumFloden sp. nov [/b]

Article in Phytotaxa 236(3):279 · December 2015

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285383465_A_new_Solomon's_Seal_Polygonatum_Asparagaceae_from_northern_Thailand (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285383465_A_new_Solomon's_Seal_Polygonatum_Asparagaceae_from_northern_Thailand)  ( may not be freely available meantime)
Title: Re: Polygonatum, A pictoral guide
Post by: Afloden on January 08, 2016, 12:27:55 PM
It should also be noted that Polygonatum gongshanense http://www.sekj.org/PDF/anb51-free/anb51-333.pdf (http://www.sekj.org/PDF/anb51-free/anb51-333.pdf) was published from Yunnan in 2014 and is a segregate of P. cathcartii (though I believe it is more closely related to P. autumnale).

And Polygonatum campanulatum was recently published from Yunnan; http://biotaxa.org/Phytotaxa/article/view/phytotaxa.236.1.10. (http://biotaxa.org/Phytotaxa/article/view/phytotaxa.236.1.10.) This is an evergreen species with bell shaped yellow flowers and grows as an epiphyte in the Gaoligongshan.

 I agree with the authors that both are novel species and the second one they chose the same name I had in a draft manuscript.