Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

Bulbs => Galanthus => Topic started by: Hagen Engelmann on October 01, 2011, 10:25:14 PM

Title: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 01, 2011, 10:25:14 PM
Season goes on. Here is a little flower, looking like an autumn TRYM.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: mark smyth on October 01, 2011, 10:32:27 PM
very good looking!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: johnw on October 01, 2011, 10:34:58 PM
How casually you drop such big bombshells Hagen!  :o :o :o

Surely there must be more to tell..... ::)

johnw
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Brian Ellis on October 01, 2011, 10:41:51 PM
Oh Hagen, how nice to see a Trym type in the autumn.  What a wonderful development.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: KentGardener on October 02, 2011, 08:08:59 AM
Very nice Hagen. 

I've just had a look in the garden and I can see a nose on 'Barnes' so looks like my snowdrop season isn't too far away.   ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 02, 2011, 11:58:41 AM
Hello friends, this nice galanthus was a good opener for the October topic.
And it looks only like a Trym.
But it`s an absolutely problem plant :-[
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Paddy Tobin on October 02, 2011, 01:35:29 PM
Good plant, Hagen.
Paddy
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Brian Ellis on October 02, 2011, 02:20:24 PM
Hello friends, this nice galanthus was a good opener for the October topic.
And it looks only like a Trym.
But it`s an absolutely problem plant :-[

Sadly the nicest ones are often a problem to cultivate :-\
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Tony Willis on October 03, 2011, 11:43:44 AM
a couple more Galanthus peshmenii

the first a very robust plant from Greece kastelorhiza a present from Ian Mc.

second a quite nice tubby flower
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: daveyp1970 on October 03, 2011, 12:21:00 PM
a couple more Galanthus peshmenii

the first a very robust plant from Greece kastelorhiza a present from Ian Mc.

second a quite nice tubby flower
That second flower is a beauty Tony,is the markings  stable?
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: KentGardener on October 03, 2011, 01:31:39 PM
As JohnW would say....  Lovely tiny blotches in that second photo Tony    ;)

I am with Davey on thinking that is a nice looking flower.

If only these really early ones could be grown without a greenhouse/frame and might stay alive in my garden.  Anything here has to cope with the elements.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Tony Willis on October 03, 2011, 01:44:12 PM
David

yes the markings seem stable as I have several off sets and they are all the same. I like the shape of the flower.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 03, 2011, 07:35:43 PM
Tony, here is a big and globular flower. But the apical mark is normal.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: daveyp1970 on October 03, 2011, 07:40:28 PM
David

yes the markings seem stable as I have several off sets and they are all the same. I like the shape of the flower.
If you ever have a spare off that one Tony could you think of me please.By the way i can't believe nobody has commented on how many drops you have in flower there could we please have an overall shot of the lot please it would be nice to see size difference in them all.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 03, 2011, 09:02:14 PM
Autumn season is full of secrets and surprises!!!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Tony Willis on October 03, 2011, 09:29:55 PM
Tony, here is a big and globular flower. But the apical mark is normal.

Hagen a very nice large flower,but as to the mark what is normal,there are so many variations?

Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: johnw on October 03, 2011, 10:47:34 PM
Has anyone tried intergeneric crosses with Galanthus and other Amaryllidaceae genera?  I know Galanthus x Leucojum has been tried but what of other Genera.

It has worked on occassion in Ericaceae so why not within Amaryllidaceae.  Finding the right genus may be a problem.  It must have been luck or extraordinary intuition that lead to x Phyllothamnus, x Phylliopsis and x Kalmiothamnus.  I suspect ignorance lead to the first Azaleodendrons though that cross is cheating a bit.

johnw

Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: steve owen on October 05, 2011, 08:11:11 PM
Here's Autumn Beauty, my first in-the-soil snowdrops in flower today. The inner marking variation seen last year is continuing. The "clump" has increased from two flowers to eleven in two years, so reasonably vigorous.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: KentGardener on October 06, 2011, 04:47:18 AM
That's doing well Steve.  I didn't buy it from Wisley at the time as I thought it was not distinct enough in looks - but it certainly makes up for it by appearing in October!   8)

Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Martin Baxendale on October 06, 2011, 09:24:26 AM
Here's Autumn Beauty, my first in-the-soil snowdrops in flower today. The inner marking variation seen last year is continuing. The "clump" has increased from two flowers to eleven in two years, so reasonably vigorous.

Looks to me like there's more than one clone there, Steve. One with a V-mark and longer narrower outer segments, and another with a large blotch and shorter, wider, chunkier outers. Rather than a single clone with variable marks. Could be that someone has selected out more than one clone, perhaps even a whole group of seedlings that flower around the same time and propagated them together as a sort of grex under the name Autumn Beauty. It's something that seems to be happening more frequently these days. Unfortunately there doesn't always seem to be very rigorous selection for similarity of appearance, leading to variability in what you may get when you buy (I'm thinking also of a certain Dutch? green-tip elwesii whose name I've temporarily forgotten that came in for some criticism last year on this score). I guess it's a way of getting a lot of saleable stock faster under a particular 'trade name' by choosing a number of similar-looking (or similar flowering period) seedlings (but not necessarily identical) and increasing them rather than selecting out individual clones to propagate. I guess that's okay if you're vigorous in the selections, but more debatable if you're not. 
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Brian Ellis on October 06, 2011, 10:42:02 AM
Nice to see them Steve, I hope my 'Autumn Beauty' (a present last year) turns out to be like the chunky one, it is in bud at the moment so fingers crossed :)
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: art600 on October 06, 2011, 01:13:00 PM
I have a similar plant to the one shown by Tony Willis.

Not the best photo I have taken, but it shows the mark clearly.

I also have a peshmenii that has a green spot on each of the outer petals.  The photo had to be manipulated to show the spot, but it is there if you concentrate.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: steve owen on October 07, 2011, 09:29:45 AM
Martin
I'll give the members of this clump a more concentrated study in a few days when all the flowers are open and the wind isn't so strong!
Steve
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: steve owen on October 10, 2011, 11:04:09 AM
A number of varieties through this week; Barnes, Remember Remember, Three Ships, Monostictus Hiemalis, Hollis, Tilebarn Jamie and Peter Gatehouse.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Mavers on October 10, 2011, 01:41:02 PM
Fabulous snowdrop Hagen. can you offer any tips regarding compost when growing these autumn flowering snowdrops in pots?

Mike
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 10, 2011, 05:21:28 PM
From today 3 different elwesii's flowering now :o All original from Turkey imported over 20 years ago! I did recognise a elwesii/cilicus hybrid with the carved outers but definitly a elwesii.I will take a picture from this one the coming days.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 10, 2011, 08:24:50 PM
Gerard, cilicicus is clearly only applanat and has no basical mark. Why do you think about a hybrid??
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 10, 2011, 09:04:00 PM
Mike, there is realy no treasure:
30% compost, not too humous
30% grit
15% shreddered leaves of beech
10% perlite/vermiculite
10% silt/loam/clay
2,5% eggshell/lime
2,5% best wishes

Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 10, 2011, 09:29:53 PM
Hagen i try to make a pic tomorrow! Then i can show you the elwesii/cilicicus hybrid flowering right now!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: freddyvl on October 10, 2011, 11:56:14 PM
Today: G. elwesii 'Remember, Remember' which shows creamy coloured stripes on the outer segments.
It was found by John Morley in his North Green garden in 1992. Named after the first line of a (well-known) folk rhyme, 'Remember, remember, the fifth of November, ... '
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 11, 2011, 05:52:10 AM
It has a very noble form, Freddy. Fine
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hans J on October 11, 2011, 07:44:07 AM
Hagen

what you mean with "Silt" ?

Thank you
Hans
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hans A. on October 11, 2011, 08:47:56 AM
Season goes on. Here is a little flower, looking like an autumn TRYM.

Ein Traum!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hagen Engelmann on October 11, 2011, 09:20:43 AM
I mean loam, Hans J :)
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Hans J on October 11, 2011, 10:09:09 AM
Thank you Hagen - now is all clear !
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 11, 2011, 04:09:45 PM
Hagen as promised a pic despite the very bad weather, and another elwesii ssp monostictus with almost perfect outer petals.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Mavers on October 11, 2011, 05:00:45 PM
Thank you for sharing your compost recipe Hagen I appreciate it very much.

Mike
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: johnw on October 12, 2011, 02:34:12 AM
2,5% best wishes

I knew I was missing something crucial in the mix!   Apparently I left it out of the 2009 mix for Diggory, 22 now 2 maybe, and Heffalump, 17 now 1 sickly. >:(

johnw
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 13, 2011, 06:30:49 PM
Much better pics from today!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Lesley Cox on October 14, 2011, 08:19:22 PM
2,5% best wishes

I knew I was missing something crucial in the mix!   Apparently I left it out of the 2009 mix for Diggory, 22 now 2 maybe, and Heffalump, 17 now 1 sickly. >:(

johnw

Surely our best wishes - and hopes - go into every potting mix? On a wing and a prayer as the airmen used to say. :D
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: ian mcenery on October 15, 2011, 09:38:25 PM
A couple with me. The first in the garden G RO Tilebarn Jamie and for those that like those things in a pot G peshmenii with green tips
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: alpinelover on October 16, 2011, 08:18:10 PM
Some flowers of G. hiemalis, today in the garden.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: carolmiers on October 18, 2011, 02:25:46 PM
Hello
Are these the types of snowdrop that usually flower in october and november? What species do grow at this time of year naturally? I am writing a short piece for a website www.landscapejuice.com about this and could I use some of the photographs of snowdrops that members have posted please?
Carol
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Maggi Young on October 18, 2011, 02:45:45 PM
Hello Carol, welcome to the SRGC Forum.
Yes, there are a  fair number of Galanthus that flower in the autumn.

I would imagine that most Forumists would be happy for you to use their photographs for non-commercial purposes, provided that proper credit is given both to the photographer and to the SRGC.

Use of photographs for commercial purposes should be agreed with the photographers.

 A search through the Forum will show you a great deal about snowdrops in general and about the autumn flowering types too..... the galanthophiles are some of the most enthusiastic of the SRGC Forumists! 
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: carolmiers on October 19, 2011, 09:37:27 AM
Thank you very much for all your help, what an interesting world
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: bulborum on October 21, 2011, 07:41:47 AM
Galanthus corcyrensis
this is an old collection made by the late Ole Sonderhousen in Sicily
probably now a G. reginae-olgae
I just keep it under this old name
to separate this clone
from the ones I collected in Sicily

Roland
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Anthony Darby on October 21, 2011, 07:49:26 AM
It's doing really well Roland, and all the better for it's history.
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Oakwood on October 21, 2011, 01:20:13 PM
Ahaaaaaa, so, the snowdrops still grow in Sicily!!!!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: steve owen on October 21, 2011, 01:56:19 PM
Shhh! Omerta!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Oakwood on October 21, 2011, 02:01:05 PM
Shhh! Omerta!
а че молчать-то???? секрет???  ::)
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: bulborum on October 21, 2011, 06:04:45 PM
My Russian isn't good enough :(

but the place is secret
I found two unknown new places
where I collected a few bulbs and seeds

I gave Melvin a few bulbs
to be sure they don't get lost
They are the ones without the blue label

Roland
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 21, 2011, 06:36:41 PM
Molto Bella Roland ;D
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Alan_b on October 23, 2011, 10:05:45 AM
Are these the types of snowdrop that usually flower in october and november? What species do grow at this time of year naturally?

There are autumn-flowering snowdrops.  The most common species in cultivation is Galanthus reginae-olgae, which is native to Greece (although not exclusively).  Technically, there are also some spring-flowering forms of this species so the autumn-flowering forms are classed as Galanthus reginae-olgae ssp. reginae-olgae.  In my Cambridgeshire garden they come into flowers around the beginning of October and the flowers last for around four weeks.  I bought mine over 10 years ago from Avon Bulbs and the pattern of growth has been that they have flourished for a while in the right spot but then gone into decline or suddenly disappeared from one year to the next.  But by lifting and dividing I have managed to keep up so I have a lot more than I started with and they still grow well in a few locations.  One problem with all autumn-flowering snowdrops is that they are prone to attack by slugs and snails (which are still active).  The best location seems to be under a deciduous shrub where it is too dry for anything to grow in summer (and unattractive for slugs and snails to venture)  but where there is plenty of light in winter.

Other autumn-flowering species are Galanthus peshmenii and Galanthus cilicicus, both from Turkey.  Neither are readily obtainable so not worth considering as garden plants.

The other garden-worthy autumn snowdrop is selected forms of Galanthus elwesii.  This usually flowers in January and February, there are quite a few selected forms that flower in December, a smaller number that flower in November and just a handful of recent discoveries that flower in October.  Over the years this species has been imported into the UK in large numbers so there are plenty around from which these selections have been made.  As far as I know, autumn flowering forms of this species have not been recorded in their native habitat.  Galanthus elwesii tends to be a vigorous snowdrop when grown in the UK, so the early-flowering selections generally make good garden plants.         
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 23, 2011, 10:20:56 AM
Alan the first elwesii's flowered here on September the 1st! I do have 4 different selections at the moment which flower from September till November! And i think i can find some new ones in November and perhaps December too because its from a wild population in Turkey
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Alan_b on October 23, 2011, 04:37:57 PM
Alan the first elwesii's flowered here on September the 1st!

Wow, that seems incredible!  There does seem to be some variation from one location to another, however.  As a point of reference, when do your first reginae-olgae flower?

... its from a wild population in Turkey

Do you have any idea when they flower in the wild?
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 24, 2011, 05:39:10 AM
Alan the first ro's flowered 15th of September, Hyde Lodge,Tilebarn Jamie and the ssp ro.

These elwesii's origine were Turkey where they flower in the wild at the same time. These were from a import over 20 years ago! A colleage kept several apart for his garden and they still flower every year from September till February! I am selecting them out now because there are quite some different ones.

From the earliest i have a few spares, so if someone would like to swap!

Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Oakwood on October 26, 2011, 09:04:32 AM
My Russian isn't good enough :(

but the place is secret
I found two unknown new places
where I collected a few bulbs and seeds

I gave Melvin a few bulbs
to be sure they don't get lost
They are the ones without the blue label

Roland
aaaaaa.. very interesting info and a photo, thank you, Roland!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: johnw on October 29, 2011, 03:54:04 PM
The first Galanthus have just surfaced, G. corcyrensis. They're seedlings sown in April 2009 and are already stout little fellows. Normal flowering date is the first week of November.

johnw
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerard Oud on October 30, 2011, 10:57:39 AM
From today;

The first one from the early flowering elwesii's already with seedpots!!! Flowered first week of September!

Faringdon Double with flower and the chips from Faringdon!
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: freddyvl on October 30, 2011, 02:54:39 PM
Today a beautiful day: 17C and sun !
Picture 1: G. reginae-olgae
Picture 2: G. elw. Hiemalis Group 'Barnes'
Picture 3: G. elw. 'Peter Gatehouse'
Title: Re: Galanthus in October
Post by: Gerdk on October 30, 2011, 04:49:30 PM
Galanthus transcaucasicus - the early flowering type - this year very early

Gerd