Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum

General Subjects => General Forum => Topic started by: David Nicholson on May 26, 2017, 07:44:39 PM

Title: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on May 26, 2017, 07:44:39 PM
Those of you who are into Facebook may find this interesting......... and worrying!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39947942 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39947942)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on July 11, 2017, 07:09:52 PM
Extracted from a recent post made by David Lytle in the Robert's botanical adventures in Northern California thread

""...............It seems that these days many forumists who would have perhaps participated in SRGC Forum discussions have migrated to Facebook. I am not sure why people are so eager to support the commercial activities of Mr Zuckerberg and his associates; perhaps it is the instant gratification the "Like" button provides which feeds the narcissistic tendencies of humankind.....""

and like wise from Robert

"".............As for Facebook…

Supporting Facebook in any way is completely contrary to my values.........""

Great minds think alike-wonderful!

Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: pfirsich48 on July 12, 2017, 11:19:40 AM
ibid
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Michael J Campbell on July 12, 2017, 11:48:33 AM
David, I was going to give a detailed explanation as to why I migrated to Facebook, but had second thoughts and decided it was not a good idea. I would like to say though that I don't have narcissistic tendencies and am not much into instant gratification, I do have other reasons that are better not printed here.  (Instant gratification and narcissistic tendencies,) could one possibly say the same about those who put plants on the show bench? :)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on July 12, 2017, 01:04:03 PM
As I have stated elsewhere, I feel  it is a great shame that some members prefer to post in Facebook etc  nowadays.  My reason for this is that this platform is open to all and is  searchable and provides a lasting archive of information, whereas FB etc are only available to group members and are useless for internet searches for information.   Everything we have tried to do here, in addition to providing a "meeting place" for like minded gardening folks,  is geared towards  providing  an archived resource of useful information - the like of which is seldom available elsewhere. To this end we also provide, wherever possible, links to other places of interest where information might be found.   It is the inability of the "popular"  social media sites to provide this in one easily accessible place that  saddens me.

 These social sites are easy to use and I am involved in Facebook and Twitter, in order to give the SRGC a platform there - and yes, it can be fun- but I still  laud this place for being a site where  real information can be found and shared.  Just a pity that those who insist that every organisation requires a presence on social media sites are not  around to help out in that respect!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Michael J Campbell on July 12, 2017, 01:38:31 PM
Snowdrops Maggi, Snowdrops. :)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Robert on July 12, 2017, 05:15:28 PM
Since my quote has been used in the Facebook debate I think that it is wise to clarify my position.

First, the debate over Facebook appears to be a highly charged emotional topic. I have not desire to show any disrespect to those that choose to use Facebook. My issues are with Mr. Zuckerberg and his business, not Facebook users.

I differentiate between Facebook itself and the people that use Facebook. In my mind Facebook is a “thing”, not a person, created by Mr. Zuckerberg as a for profit business. Like any business I have a free will choice either to use the business service or do something else. Personally, there is nothing about Mr. Zuckerberg’s business I wish to support. Mr. Zuckerberg gathers enormous amounts of information about each user. He does not disclose how this information is being sold and used. There have been a number of studies that have concluded that Facebook is not a healthy environment for children or teenagers. I cannot support something that exploits and profits from those who are vulnerable and impressionable. This is not the type of world I want to create. This issue is between Mr. Zuckerberg, his business and me.

As Maggi has pointed out, there are many positive aspects to our SRGC Forum. This is something I wholeheartedly support. Anyone can read my SRGC Forum diary and anyone who chooses to interact with me can do so. From what I have been told, some Facebook groups have limited access and one can only participate if allowed in by the group. In other words, some are excluded. Social Media? Is this the appropriate venue for such things? Once again this is a free will choice and I do not want to support directly or indirectly such things. The older I get, the more I realize that my choices have consequences that ripple out into the universe. I wish to be as mindful as possible about what I support or do not support. Hannah Arendt’s New Yorker essay, The Report on the Banality of Evil surrounding the trial of Adolf Eichmann, elaborates on how our actions or inactions can have tremendous consequences. I am just doing the best I can to make wise choices.

When I first joined the SRGC Forum I made many mistakes, yet I was never asked to leave or excluded. With time I found a niche where I feel I can make a positive contribution to the SRGC. I like simplicity and wish to focus my energies towards something that I truly believe in.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Michael J Campbell on July 12, 2017, 05:55:19 PM
 (There is nothing about Mr. Zuckerberg’s business I wish to support. Mr. Zuckerberg gathers enormous amounts of information about each user.)

One could say the same about Bill Gates, most people who use the internet use Windows and therefore support Bill Gates ( who also collects lots or information) by the very fact that they are using the internet. I don't see the difference.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Robert on July 12, 2017, 07:18:36 PM
Hi Michael,

I am lost!  :) I do not understand the point. I seems obvious that every choice we make in life supports or does not support something. I am not trying to tell anyone what they should or should not do. I have the freedom to support or not support Facebook or Google (they too collect vast amounts of personal information). You have the freedom to support or not support Facebook, Microsoft, your local grocery store, the telephone company, to get up in the morning or stay in bed. I am just trying to think about what I do in this very imperfect world.

I have made no judgement of your personal actions, and do not wish to. I hope that you are not taking my comments this way.

I understand that Facebook is a highly charged topic. I did the best I could to explain my choices as personal. Yes, I do this or that. So what? It is about me and no one else. I am 100% responsible for my actions. I just want to think about what I am doing and why. There is nothing to debate. You use Facebook. This is your choice not mine. I do not even know you. It would be completely unfair to judge you base on whether or not you use Facebook. My guess is that you are a intelligent, mindful, caring person. Most people are. I have no desire to attack you and anyone else who uses Facebook. I have settled my issue with Mr. Zuckerberg by refusing to use his business product. I know that there are some that do not like this choice and shun me. That is their choice. I think it is sad, but that is the way it is.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Michael J Campbell on July 12, 2017, 08:29:32 PM
 :) :) :)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Robert on July 13, 2017, 01:09:58 AM
Michael,

 :) :) :)

 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Lyttle on July 13, 2017, 03:02:32 AM
I think that if you are using an internet service such as Facebook it is useful to ask the question "What information am I providing them in return for the service they are offering and what do they do with it?" If you are comfortable with the answer then by all means use it. If you are like me and are not, then don't.

Posting on this Forum is akin to publication; once it is up on the site it is in the public domain whether it be a photo or a casual comment. That is the nature of the Internet. You can download my photos or agree/disagree with my comments. I try not to be contentious but I seem to have set the cat among the pigeons on this occasion. Robert's blog is a good example of the power of this Forum; it is informative, focused and leads to some good discussion on its content.( ie I mean its actual botanical content)

Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Hannelore on July 13, 2017, 06:34:14 AM
Hello Michael,

(There is nothing about Mr. Zuckerberg’s business I wish to support. Mr. Zuckerberg gathers enormous amounts of information about each user.)
One could say the same about Bill Gates, most people who use the internet use Windows and therefore support Bill Gates ( who also collects lots or information) by the very fact that they are using the internet. I don't see the difference.

There is a huge difference.

You can differ between three layers in the job FB does.

There's first the safety of information against other users of FB and the internet. In this respect the information is protected, even better than at many other places in the net (f.i. I have three websites and according to German Law there has to be an impressum with personal information free to see for everybody).

The second is, what FB does itself with the information they get - they sell it, the same way as Google, Microsoft and so on. You are right, there is no difference.

The third is the manipulation of the reality of the users. The FB software traces the behaviour of each user and constructs this way a sort of electronic personality. This enriches the information and their value when selling it. But the software also selects the news shown to the users by their profile: So every FB user gets a picture of the world which fits into his electronic profile. In my eyes this is the worst thing in FB and that's why I'm not there but read my paper newpaper every day.

I hope that I could express that a little bit understandable in English.

BW Hannelore
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ChrisB on July 13, 2017, 07:39:55 AM
Aah, FB, yes.  I have used it for a long time. It doesn't mean I no longer come here.  I have loads of friends who have no interest in gardening, and FB gives me the ability to be in touch with them unobtrusively, sharing information I decide to share.  Yes, I put garden pics up there too, and even friends with no gardening interest often say they enjoy seeing what I'm doing in my garden, and who knows, maybe they will become interested...
So sorry folks, I shall always be on FB because it suits me.  I have never thought of FB as an information resource, Maggi, I don't think it's intention is to do that job, so there is no need to worry that it replaces all the very valuable work you do here, which I appreciate and make frequent use of. Horses for courses so the saying goes, and I think this amazing forum is just as important as FB, but for different reasons.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Alan_b on July 13, 2017, 09:52:53 AM
I use Facebook quite a lot without being particularly keen on it.  If you want to talk about some particular botanical interest you are liable to find a much wider community of people posting on that topic than are prepared to register for the SRGC Forum and post here.  I'm not sure why that is; perhaps they join Facebook to keep in touch with friends and family and then it's effortless to join a special interest group there?  It's certainly vastly easier to post photographs to Facebook than to the Forum where you have to worry about image size.  But it can be much more difficult to find an old post on Facebook, even one you made yourself, so what is posted there has an ephemeral nature unlike the Forum which (although this has failed in the past) should maintain a permanent repository of useful information.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Tim Ingram on July 13, 2017, 01:12:07 PM
Interesting discussion because there are nuances. The most important question of all is 'do those who use the SRGC Forum also join the SRGC and/or financially contribute to the running of the Forum, and even more - if they live in Scotland - contribute directly to running the Society and its events and groups? This is the big problem (and wonder) of the Internet - it gives you access to so much without necessarily contributing. You could say this is all simply about the quality of information shared anywhere on the web, rather like the information that sits in books on your bookshelf, because it is up to the user to judge the quality. Facebook is more like a 'relay station' that can point you in the right direction (if the right direction is given), and - as Maggi says - can be valuable if that right direction is to the Societies and Groups we belong to and care for. In that sense it can be capitalised on by the individual rather than the organisation that runs it... but it does have downsides quite apart from the ways that organisation uses personal information. But neither the Internet or Facebook are likely to go away and it's hard to see the SRGC and AGS and other specialist societies thriving unless they encompass the Social Media and make it obvious the very practical values that they share, not least the Alpine Shows and support for specialist nurseries!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Sellars on July 24, 2017, 03:11:28 PM
The first forum I joined was Alpine-L back around the turn of the century. The database of responses is still available on-line and are searchable with Google. Alpine-L had many North American users but Alpine-L was essentially killed off by the NARGS Forum which took away the main Alpine-L participants. Alpine-L struggled on for a while but is now essentially dormant.

The NARGS Forum was very active when it was first introduced but many NARGS Forum users have since migrated to Facebook.  This I believe is the main reason for the demise of the NARGS Forum though there were other factors. Now we hear that some SRGC Forum users are moving to Facebook. It would be tragic if the pervasiveness of Facebook detracted from the quality of the SRGC Forum. Facebook has the capacity to eat everything in its path. But maybe in 20 years time something will come along that will swallow Facebook.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on July 24, 2017, 07:39:58 PM
Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest!

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reasons-to-delete-your-facebook-account-2010-5?IR=T (http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reasons-to-delete-your-facebook-account-2010-5?IR=T)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Tim Ingram on July 26, 2017, 08:47:07 AM
Maybe conversation is dead David and we are all addicts now to the social media and sound-bites. I think that is probably true to an extent - much depends on the quality and stimulation and accuracy of the conversation and whether you feel stimulated or depressed by it. The interesting thing about the Internet is that it can have something of the intellectual freedom of a University and the way it does this is by connectivity. You will probably be as frustrated as I have been by the relative lack of conversation on another specialist garden society website. Curiously that led me to the NARGS Forum, where I came across some really interesting gardeners, and here on the SRGC even more so, and then Facebook where that happened even more in a rather different way. But it does come back to how much anyone is prepared to financially support the AGS, NARGS and SRGC, and these I do. Facebook costs nothing except their accessing of your intellectual property (so to speak), and coming from a scientific background I believe in intellectual property being freely exchanged. So I use Facebook to turn its gaze on the specialist garden societies that I really believe in, and to come across some really interesting people who otherwise I would never have 'met'. But that doesn't mean I don't share many of your concerns, in the same way that journalism becomes subsumed by the short term nature of the social media. What the societies do, which Facebook (or the Internet in general) can never supplant is that very personal sharing of our plants and gardens which we do day to day by actually contributing to them. Facebook is a bit like that section that used to be at the beginning of the AGS Bulletin of notes from different gardeners under the title of various semi-parasitic plants (Pedicularis, Rhinanthus, Castilleja) - much of it is ephemeral but it can lead on to something of more substance when you contribute positively to the societies you love.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on September 22, 2017, 08:11:14 PM
Steady, safe and secure, you could let your grandma (or grandad) loose on the SRGC Forum ;D

Unlike................................................................................

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/business/facebook-advertising-anti-semitism.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/business/facebook-advertising-anti-semitism.html)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on September 24, 2017, 07:21:01 PM
Facebook can't hide behind algorithms...............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41358078 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41358078)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Great Moravian on September 27, 2017, 10:20:20 AM
I boycott facebook. For many other reasons that cannot be published.
Title: SRGC ease of posting photos!
Post by: Maggi Young on October 03, 2017, 07:39:34 PM
About posting photos - I know the ease of loading pix to facebook is very tempting - along with all those "like" ticks - but  the SRGC Forum has undergone some changes recently and if using the  (attachimg=1)  code - with the square brackets (rather than the ones I've used to allow you to see without confusing the system with code) it is possible to attach  larger photo sizes which will be automatically resized to the page and open in the  text box.
I don't suggest  using huge  multi-MB file sizes - but  one can post much larger photos than previously - plus the size that photos are resized to on Facebook will transfer here perfectly.
 A couple of random examples .....

[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=2]

The first photo above was originally 2592  x 3888 pixels and over 2MB and the 2nd was 1280  x 960  and 325KB  - they are now  466 x 700 and 52.8KB and 900 x 675 and 163 KB  !

 So things are easier here  now than you might expect!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ChrisB on October 03, 2017, 09:05:42 PM
Ok, here goes, I'll try uploading
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ChrisB on October 03, 2017, 09:06:29 PM
Came on small and sideways ....  ?
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ChrisB on October 03, 2017, 09:07:43 PM
Don't understand what to do Maggi
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: fermi de Sousa on October 03, 2017, 11:54:39 PM
Came on small and sideways ....  ?
Maybe 'cos that's how they grow in the wild? ;)
 ;D
Photographing it on the kitchen bench makes it look like an African Violet!
cheers
fermi
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ranunculus on October 04, 2017, 09:58:59 AM
Testing, testing ... simply testing, testing ...
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ranunculus on October 04, 2017, 10:00:20 AM
Gloating, gloating ... simply gloating, gloating.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Jan Tholhuijsen on October 04, 2017, 11:34:59 AM
Test, these photos are very large 3.6mb 4600 x 3500 pixels approximately. (and it works perfectly)
Oxalis perdicaria
Clematis viticella 'Purpurea Plena Elegans'


[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on October 04, 2017, 11:38:07 AM
Ok, here goes, I'll try uploading

.......Came on small and sideways ....  ?

Two things here, Christine -  first, the sideways thing - this I believe depends on the orientation of the camera when the shot was taken -  the image  can default back to the original  when posted .  Here I have  reposted it when turned  in my machine, and secondly, it is appearing as a thumbnail because you have  added it as an "end of post  expandable thumbnail" - rather than choosing the  "inline full-size  image"  choice as an attachment ....

[attachimg=1]

  - lovely Petrocosmea, by the way!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on October 04, 2017, 11:40:31 AM
Gloating, gloating ... simply gloating, gloating.
If you add them as "inline full-size image"  Cliff, they are loud and proud on the page  and  need not be opened individually!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on October 04, 2017, 11:41:36 AM
Test, these photos are very large 3.6mb 4600 x 3500 pixels approximately. (and it works perfectly)
Oxalis perdicaria
Clematis viticella 'Purpurea Plena Elegans'

Super  Jan - thanks for the examples!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ranunculus on October 04, 2017, 11:47:32 AM
If you add them as "inline full-size image"  Cliff, they are loud and proud on the page  and  need not be opened individually!


Many thanks, Maggie!  It's just remembering that now. LOL.


Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ranunculus on October 04, 2017, 11:52:54 AM
[attachimg=1]

Just for dear Maggi. x
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ranunculus on October 04, 2017, 11:55:56 AM
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on October 04, 2017, 12:45:22 PM
How I would love to attend what I know  will be a  super talk by John Massey - a star in so many fields - to commemorate Jim Lever -  one of the nicest  people I've known in the "rocky plant" world.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on October 04, 2017, 04:59:21 PM
I'd pay big money to get in to hear that.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on October 04, 2017, 08:46:49 PM
I wouldn't pay big money to hear this:-

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/welcome-next-phase-facebook-backlash/ (https://www.wired.com/2017/05/welcome-next-phase-facebook-backlash/)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: ian mcdonald on October 04, 2017, 10:32:51 PM
I don,t know what facebook is so I won,t bother looking at it. Don,t know behemoth either so I looked it up. It says, huge creature. I wouldn,t want that flying into me. I don,t have an Iphone, or a smart phone. The only tablets I have are prescribed by my doc. I wonder how I will manage?
Title: Re: SRGC ease of posting photos!
Post by: SJW on October 05, 2017, 12:05:16 AM
[attachimg=1]
About posting photos - I know the ease of loading pix to facebook is very tempting - along with all those "like" ticks - but  the SRGC Forum has undergone some changes recently and if using the  (attachimg=1)  code - with the square brackets (rather than the ones I've used to allow you to see without confusing the system with code) it is possible to attach  larger photo sizes which will be automatically resized to the page and open in the  text box.
I don't suggest  using huge  multi-MB file sizes - but  one can post much larger photos than previously - plus the size that photos are resized to on Facebook will transfer here perfectly.
 A couple of random examples .....

Testing...

Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: SJW on October 05, 2017, 12:09:19 AM
Well that seemed to work. So you just type attachimg=1 (plus brackets) at the beginning of the text and that's it?
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Great Moravian on October 05, 2017, 03:35:09 PM
Dear Maggi,
My system says that the forum site is not secure. Please consult this with the provider.
Ask them to make Inline full-size image default.

It is not necessary to type [attachimg=1]. The engine does it by the following procedure.
Simply move the cursor to the place in the text where the image should be included.
Choose Attachments an other options.
Click on End-of-post expandable thumbnail or Inline expandable thumbnail
or Inline full-size image,  and choose Inline full-size image.
Select the attached image from your directory.
You can add further image in another place by the same procedure, the engine will insert  [attachimg=2].
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on October 05, 2017, 03:51:00 PM
Josef's instructions are correct. We do not intend to remove the other options for  posting.
When  one attaches photos  etc to a forum post,  under the "Attachments and other options" button below the text  box, there are various choices - when one uses the   (attachimg=1)  code - within the square brackets -
it is possible to attach  larger photo sizes which will be automatically resized to the page and open in the  text box.  (I've used () type to allow you to see without confusing the system with code when using the code in square brackets - that is to say, if I showed the code inside the square brackets all you would see is an attachment unavailable message because there is no picture loaded)
A screen grab of those options is shown below ( in inline expandable thumbnail version !)
[attach=1]

 Josef, the forum is the same as ever - it is just that recently  browsers have beome  more enthusiastic to "warn" people  that a site does not have https encryption.  The same warning is shown for any number of other sites like ours. We do not consider that necessary for the SRGC site  because there is no  sensitive material held onsite.  https  level security  also costs  more to provide and this seems an unneeded expense for a charitable site providing free information to our audience.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Michael J Campbell on October 05, 2017, 06:20:35 PM
Oxalis massoniana.

Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: kindredspiritkevin on October 10, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
I pay to be a member of SRGC.
I pay to be a member of AGS.
I don't think I would ever pay to be part of Farcebook, although I use it an awful lot,
the same as I avoid flying Ryanair
and avoid shopping in Dunnes.
I don't post that much here because I don't have the expertise
but I love Alpine plants and 99% seem to grow for me. (63 troughs and rising.)   :)  :) My other areas are exotics and native plants........no dahlias or anything.

(Just the way I think.)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Great Moravian on October 11, 2017, 11:49:30 AM
Josef, the forum is the same as ever - it is just that recently  browsers have beome  more enthusiastic to "warn" people  that a site does not have https encryption.  The same warning is shown for any number of other sites like ours. We do not consider that necessary for the SRGC site  because there is no  sensitive material held onsite.  https  level security  also costs  more to provide and this seems an unneeded expense for a charitable site providing free information to our audience.
Maggi,
Thank you for clear explanation.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Tim Ingram on October 11, 2017, 02:57:46 PM
Here goes... a behind the scene image from the Great Dixter Autumn Plant Fair. Some pictures on Facebook-The Behemoth too, and soon to be published, a Kent Diary on the AGS website about the event and the people who came to it... And because this is so easy and I hadn't discovered this option before I will return to rebuilding my rebuilding blog here too 😉[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Paul Cumbleton on November 04, 2017, 09:42:31 AM
Maggi -and probably many others - I thought you might like this! -

In a recent issue of New Scientist magazine, a contributor describes how he was looking at a poster about Facebook. Part of the poster was obscured by something so all he could see of the social media's name was "Facebo". He imagines this is a new phenomenon - "The Facebo Effect" and that it could be defined as "the phenomenon of thinking you are having real, beneficial personal interactions, when in fact, you're not"

Paul
From New Scientist 28 October 2017 p. 56
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Robert on November 04, 2017, 02:32:29 PM
About a month ago I heard the following report on the U.S. morning news TV program “CSB This Morning”. It went something like this: journalist and journalism create news content; facebook gets news content for free, yet gets 100% of the advertising revenue. i.e. something for nothing! Journalists want and need to be paid for their services. Also journalism and freedom of the press is essential for a healthy democratic system. Hum! Who knows what the truth is, but this does not sound so good.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on November 04, 2017, 08:12:04 PM
................He imagines this is a new phenomenon - "The Facebo Effect" and that it could be defined as "the phenomenon of thinking you are having real, beneficial personal interactions, when in fact, you're not"

Wonderful. ;D
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Michael J Campbell on November 05, 2017, 11:35:11 AM
About a month ago I heard the following report on the U.S. morning news TV program “CSB This Morning”. It went something like this: journalist and journalism create news content; facebook gets news content for free, yet gets 100% of the advertising revenue. i.e. something for nothing! Journalists want and need to be paid for their services. Also journalism and freedom of the press is essential for a healthy democratic system. Hum! Who knows what the truth is, but this does not sound so good.
Robert, you are correct about the Journalists creating news content, they don't disseminate news content, they create it, more often than not it is isn't the truth and is only propaganda for whoever pays their wages. As for journalism and the freedom of the press for a healthy democratic system ( maybe you can quote one) because in this country one man owns practically all the newspapers and all the regional radio stations, not much democracy or freedom of the press there. At least we don't have to pay a licence or spend money on newsprint, and with Facebook, we can freely express our opinion, people can then and agree or disagree with us if they choose. With a newspaper, radio, or TV, we don't have that right, and a lot of people think that because it is in print in a large format in a newspaper that it is the truth. We have exposed lots of scandals and organised one of the largest protest movements in Europe all through Facebook, and forced the Government to back down on proposed legislation. While I don't agree with a lot of  Facebook policy and operating methods it is the best we have at the moment to help counteract the Government propaganda that is fed to us on a daily basis  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Robert on November 05, 2017, 03:06:12 PM
Michael,

At home my wife and I do not have a TV, radio, facebook, newspapers, news magazines, etc.

I was somewhere else visiting when I saw the TV program and I was paraphrasing their statements not mine!

I agree, in many cases (most likely most cases, i.e. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle in a broad sense) I do not know what the truth is! This explains the comment "Who knows what the truth is?"

I have to admit that not being plugged into the news is interesting. Not very much happens that effects my daily life.

It is in my best interest to stop posting on this thread. Gandhi meditated every day on "not agitating and not being agitated by the world". Seems like a good idea.  :) I do not understand why people get so worked up about facebook and I certainly do not want to get worked up about facebook.  :P   What a waste of my time and energy! Like most of the "news", facebook has zero bearing on my everyday life.

I like our garden, gardening, botany, and even doing stuff for the TV station. Yes, I volunteer for our local TV station. They are not evil people trying to spread lies and evil! They are very nice everyday folks like you and me. They are concerned about their community, their families and doing good. They are not interested in monopolies, evil, conspiracy theories, or other non sense. They work extremely hard and are dedicated to their work. They do the best they can, just like you and me. They are not part of some sort of propaganda machine. The system is not perfect and never will be! Journalism is not a disrespectful profession! I think that they would dislike the implications of your statements and I am going to stand up for them!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Tim Ingram on November 05, 2017, 04:01:02 PM
Well all I can say is that I have met a very level headed and wise lady, Ethne Clarke (one of many such people of both sexes) on Facebook - and which happens to be true here too - who said on a political theme: "But it is worth trying and to resist by trying -- reading, writing and talking. "Truth," wrote David Hume, "springs from arguments among friends."

Horses for courses!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on November 15, 2017, 07:16:22 PM
Facebook's first President doesn't seem to think much about facebook does he. Great minds...................

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/11/09/facebooks-first-president-on-facebook-god-only-knows-what-its-doing-to-our-childrens-brains/?utm_term=.fa313f60caa3 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/11/09/facebooks-first-president-on-facebook-god-only-knows-what-its-doing-to-our-childrens-brains/?utm_term=.fa313f60caa3)
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: P. Kohn on November 17, 2017, 02:51:49 PM
Can someone explain the point of Facebook. I still don't really understand. My daughter used it when she was touring Australia and New Zealand for a year and wanted her friends to follow her travels which makes some sense I suppose, But she has long since given up on Facebook. Rather shocked recently to discover a local gardening group to which we have been asked to talk which seems to operate entirely on Facebook and doesn't bother with a website so I suppose it works for them. But personally, no thank you.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on November 17, 2017, 03:28:59 PM
For a start, Peter, websites cost money to  operate - FB is free so it makes sense for many  groups to only use that.  Of course, one of the costs of a website  comes with the assurance that information can be kept accessible  to all - which is certainly important to the SRGC.
 
We are told  (often by those with no experience of any kind of social media !) that FB and Twitter etc are "THE WAY" to communicate with people in the  modern world - well, it may be worth using those  paths just to give the likes of the SRGC some extra publicity, perhaps to some who would not find us otherwise - but I cannot see the website losing its value as a repository for information.  Makes me all the more grateful for those wonderful people who not only support the SRGC by their membership but by their donations to the website.  Bless them all, I say!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: P. Kohn on November 17, 2017, 04:23:00 PM
Yes, Maggi

And we are hugely grateful for all the work you do on the forum. I can see what you are saying about the value of Facebook to small impoverished groups. Still not for me. And as for Twitter, All I need say is 'Donald Trump'.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Maggi Young on November 17, 2017, 04:26:00 PM
I can think of no better an organisation to volunteer for than the SRGC, Peter!
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Matt T on November 17, 2017, 04:53:20 PM
Here here! As you say, Facebook is very useful to communicate with and widen our audience, but this website and Forum are indeed the best places to serve as a permanent repository of information that can be found and referred to easily time and again.

I heard a startling claim this week, that as many as two thirds of Twitter users are fake and spammer accounts. Facebook requires you to identify yourself as an individual and limits any one individual to one account (not impossible to get around this if you're determined, granted) whereas Twitter seems to be much more lax about these things.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Graeme on November 17, 2017, 09:53:07 PM
I heard a startling claim this week, that as many as two thirds of Twitter users are fake and spammer accounts. Facebook requires you to identify yourself as an individual and limits any one individual to one account (not impossible to get around this if you're determined, granted) whereas Twitter seems to be much more lax about these things.
Not that I do faceache - but a bunch of payasyougo sims - and a decent vpn and you can have as many accounts as you want

Like most security systems it depends how determined you are to circumvent it
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Hannelore on November 18, 2017, 09:05:43 AM
Today I got for our bookshop the offer "Auto likes service for social media"
so you can estimate what the "likes" value.

Hannelore
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: Alan_b on November 18, 2017, 12:00:35 PM
Facebook requires you to identify yourself as an individual and limits any one individual to one account (not impossible to get around this if you're determined, granted)

Several people that I encounter on Facebook have names that are very obviously bogus.  The Facebook administration does not seem to be capable of spotting this.
Title: Re: Facebook-The Behemoth
Post by: David Nicholson on December 08, 2018, 07:40:24 PM
Extracts below from an interview on the Radio 4 programme 'Today' with Robert Hannigan who until last year ran GCHQ (the UK's "listening post")

Asked whether Facebook was a threat to democracy he replied "Potentially yes. I think if is, if it isn't controlled and regulated"

Facebook's ethics are those of a multinational, hard-headed advertising business, which is what they are really"

"One of the problems is that they have presented themselves as fluffy community builder" whereas actually they were "incredibly secretive companies refusing to co-operate with a whole range of governments including the US"

"The Company needs to be more open about who is funding their accounts, who is behind their accounts and to share that information on law enforcement with governments."

And from  today's Times.

"{The company's} real problem is a lack of transparency. The truth is we don't really know who is behind Facebook accounts, who is putting into them, so we're getting potentially mass propaganda and targeted propaganda without any understanding of where it is coming from" He added that Facebook would  "....squeeze whatever profit they can out of the data they are using"  and that incentives to drive profit were likely to be "higher than incentives to protect privacy".

My personal view, for what it is worth, is that during the next couple of years Facebook will be gradually "legislated" out of existence.