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Author Topic: Corydalis 2010  (Read 15569 times)

Maggi Young

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #195 on: May 22, 2010, 09:46:15 AM »
Hi Folks, I have moved the posts concerning the mystery plant from Cyprus to a new thread.....
This topic has been moved to Plant Identification Questions and Answers .

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5488.0
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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arisaema

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #196 on: May 24, 2010, 10:34:23 AM »
I just deadheaded the named solidas, and threw in some white and blue ones for good measure - PM me with address if anyone's interested.

TheOnionMan

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #197 on: May 24, 2010, 01:33:46 PM »
Touring the amazing garden and nursery (http://www.jpwflowers.com/) of Jan Sacks and Marty Schafer in Carlisle, Massachusetts, USA, there was considerable interest in this wild unnamed form of Corydalis flexuosa which has better flower power and plant constitution than many flexuosa selections.  It is such an electric blue that the eye is instantly drawn to it, no small feat in this vast and wondrous garden.
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
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gote

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #198 on: May 31, 2010, 01:13:06 PM »
That is a beautiful flexuosa Mark, Unfortunately I cannot grow them. Their habit of trying to stay green during the winter is a disaster in my climate.

The last of the "bulbous" ones is now in flower. C buschii.

Cheers
Göte
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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #199 on: June 01, 2010, 09:43:01 AM »
..and what a beauty, Gote, painted with carmine red like a lipstick on the pale pink - gorgeous  :-*
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cohan

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #200 on: June 01, 2010, 07:06:25 PM »
my native cory- Corydalis aureahas been in flower for several weeks now, and will continue through summer; because plants are biennial and don't usually seem to seed back in to the same spot (they like disturbed soil, and most spots here grow over in a year or two) i have to hunt for them over again every year..luckily, they have also sown themselves into my yard in a couple of places, so i should be able to keep track of them and get some patches established..
this is a good year for them in the bush, and i have found them in several places--i don't know how they spread-the seeds are heavy, yet turn up in widely scattered sites..they are assoicated a lot with soil turned up by pocket gophers, as they  like the loose soil, don't know if they spread the seeds...
west central alberta, canada; 1000m; record temps:min -45C/-49F;max 34C/93F; http://picasaweb.google.ca/cactuscactus  http://urbanehillbillycanada.blogspot.com/

gote

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #201 on: June 04, 2010, 08:05:31 AM »
my native cory- Corydalis aureahas been in flower for several weeks now, and will continue through summer; because plants are biennial and don't usually seem to seed back in to the same spot (they like disturbed soil, and most spots here grow over in a year or two) i have to hunt for them over again every year..luckily, they have also sown themselves into my yard in a couple of places, so i should be able to keep track of them and get some patches established..
this is a good year for them in the bush, and i have found them in several places--i don't know how they spread-the seeds are heavy, yet turn up in widely scattered sites..they are assoicated a lot with soil turned up by pocket gophers, as they  like the loose soil, don't know if they spread the seeds...

Looks like a nice one. I would guess that the seeds are dispersed by ants.
Göte
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cohan

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #202 on: June 05, 2010, 06:23:57 AM »
my native cory- Corydalis aureahas been in flower for several weeks now, and will continue through summer; because plants are biennial and don't usually seem to seed back in to the same spot (they like disturbed soil, and most spots here grow over in a year or two) i have to hunt for them over again every year..luckily, they have also sown themselves into my yard in a couple of places, so i should be able to keep track of them and get some patches established..
this is a good year for them in the bush, and i have found them in several places--i don't know how they spread-the seeds are heavy, yet turn up in widely scattered sites..they are assoicated a lot with soil turned up by pocket gophers, as they  like the loose soil, don't know if they spread the seeds...

Looks like a nice one. I would guess that the seeds are dispersed by ants.
Göte

quite possible--but we are talking about plants scattered very thinly over a large area--say very roughly  4-6 locations with one to 3 plants over something like 75 hectares..the ants could spread them some metres from the plant, but (i'm speculating, no ant expert) i guess the ants will not cross the territory of many other ants to carry the seeds many hundreds of metres? the way this species quickly turns up in disturbed soil though, i suppose there could alsobe pre-existing seed in many places that doesn't germinate until the right conditions arrive..
west central alberta, canada; 1000m; record temps:min -45C/-49F;max 34C/93F; http://picasaweb.google.ca/cactuscactus  http://urbanehillbillycanada.blogspot.com/

gote

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #203 on: June 07, 2010, 10:16:16 AM »
my native cory- Corydalis aureahas been in flower for several weeks now, and will continue through summer; because plants are biennial and don't usually seem to seed back in to the same spot (they like disturbed soil, and most spots here grow over in a year or two) i have to hunt for them over again every year..luckily, they have also sown themselves into my yard in a couple of places, so i should be able to keep track of them and get some patches established..
this is a good year for them in the bush, and i have found them in several places--i don't know how they spread-the seeds are heavy, yet turn up in widely scattered sites..they are assoicated a lot with soil turned up by pocket gophers, as they  like the loose soil, don't know if they spread the seeds...

Looks like a nice one. I would guess that the seeds are dispersed by ants.
Göte

quite possible--but we are talking about plants scattered very thinly over a large area--say very roughly  4-6 locations with one to 3 plants over something like 75 hectares..the ants could spread them some metres from the plant, but (i'm speculating, no ant expert) i guess the ants will not cross the territory of many other ants to carry the seeds many hundreds of metres? the way this species quickly turns up in disturbed soil though, i suppose there could alsobe pre-existing seed in many places that doesn't germinate until the right conditions arrive..
Most Corydalis growing in forests have ephemeral seeds but this refers to perennial species. An annual or biennial would need seeds that persist otherwise the species could be wiped out by a bad year. I am also not an ant expert but my guess is that they may not go further than say a hundred meters (Help Anthony!) which is not enough to explain your spread.
Göte
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cohan

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #204 on: June 09, 2010, 07:39:08 AM »

Most Corydalis growing in forests have ephemeral seeds but this refers to perennial species. An annual or biennial would need seeds that persist otherwise the species could be wiped out by a bad year. I am also not an ant expert but my guess is that they may not go further than say a hundred meters (Help Anthony!) which is not enough to explain your spread.
Göte

kristl has mentioned that seeds of this species are not ephemeral, as you suggest..somehow, this is a good year for them--i have seen the species in more places on the farm than ever, and quite different places than in the past... of course, i should not suggest that this plant is an exceptional mystery for dispersal--there are many plants that are widely scattered..no doubt many different dispersal mechanisms at play..
west central alberta, canada; 1000m; record temps:min -45C/-49F;max 34C/93F; http://picasaweb.google.ca/cactuscactus  http://urbanehillbillycanada.blogspot.com/

TheOnionMan

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #205 on: June 16, 2010, 09:33:37 PM »
Time to revisit an old issue, the identity of a Corydalis shown previously as C. elata, with forum members saying the true identity is C. omeiana.  However I don't see the issue as clear cut.  My C. "elata: are in full bloom, have been for nearly two weeks; much earlier than normal given our extremely early spring season this year. 

Referring back to the original thread... I prepared a PDF document that listed the salient differences between the two, copied & pasted the Flora of China (FOC) species descriptions and line drawing, for easy comparison.  Refer also to Maggi's scan of two pages from Tebbit, Lidén and Zetterlund's book: Bleeding Hearts and Corydalis.
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4903.msg145306#msg145306

I have examined the plants critically, and unfortunately, the keys and description just don't match consistently for either species, so maybe it means going back to the keys in FOC for Section Elatae, and finding out what species does fit it best, if any.  It is also possible (and I'm suspicious of this) that the FOC descriptions are splitting hairs and don't properly take into account the natural variability of a plant species, thus impossible to snugly fit a plant into one species description or another, a frequent problem with botanical keys.  Here's what I found:

 * radical leaf size is large, generally to 8 cm (like C. elata)

 * long-stalked lower leaves to 8" (20 cm) (like C. elata) (unlike C. omeiana with generally shorter basal leaf petiole)

 * sepals do not entirely match either species.  Sepals early deciduous (like C. omeiana) but they are only 1 mm long (like C. elata).

 * flower density, terminal raceme on average 20-30 flowered (like C. elata).  (unlike 10-15 flowered in C. omeiana).

 * flowers in raceme all around (like C. elata).  (unlike C. omeiana with that are "conspicuously one-sided")

 * no crest observed (like C. omeiana) - inconclusive to me, as the FOC drawing of C. elata, I can detect no crests. In the Zetterlund book, the description of C. elata makes no mention of crests. The "pronounced gibbosity at the base" of the lower petal matches C. elata.

 * stigma shape and characteristics (like C. omeiana), although not shown in drawing of C. elata, thus inconclusive. (requires powerful magnifying lens or microscope!).

So at best, I think we can call this plant as shown in my photos, Corydalis aff. elata, or C. sp. Section Elatae, or some such.  The Section Elatae key is long and daunting, but if I have time, I'll try and go through it.  Meanwhile, on our seemingly endless warm summer-like days, working in my shady woodland garden amongst Epimedium and other plants, this Corydalis wafts an enticing sweet perfume with heady coconut overtones... a treat for the senses.

3 photos explained:
1  Lifting up about 5 stems, showing the density of the terminal racemes.

2  Not mentioned in any of the descriptions for C. elata or C. omeiana, is that the cauline leaves most often sprout sub-racemes of flowers, they're not just simple cauline leaves.  Some stems have regular cauline leaves without sub-racemes, but the majority do produce flowers with lower flower count than the terminal raceme.

3  Close up of one terminal raceme, I counted 30 flowers, which seems typical.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:39:03 PM by TheOnionMan »
Mark McDonough
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USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

Ian Y

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #206 on: June 17, 2010, 09:45:30 AM »
Hi McMark

I agree that there is still a lot of taxonomic work to be done on Corydalis but check out

 Bulb log 25 2009   where you will see some pictures showing the large long stemmed basal leaf found on so called true C. elata.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 10:02:47 AM by Ian Y »
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TheOnionMan

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #207 on: June 17, 2010, 03:11:43 PM »
Hi McMark

I agree that there is still a lot of taxonomic work to be done on Corydalis but check out

 Bulb log 25 2009   where you will see some pictures showing the large long stemmed basal leaf found on so called true C. elata.



Hi Ian,

Thanks for the link.  But it confirms my point, that if one examines a plant point for point, characteristic for characteristic, the plants might not match up precisely with either species, C. elata nor C. omeiana, but to some extent fit both species depending on characteristic looked at critically. 

My plants have the large long stemmed basal leaf found on true C. elata, as well as the high flower count on true elata.  My plants have more characteristics matching "elata" than it does for omeiana.  I believe it is necessary to revisit the keys, and who knows, maybe the plant is actually C. harrysmithii.... which it actually seems to fit closer to... and that species description actually mentions the "axillary racemes" which the subject plant has, whereas descriptions for elata and omeiana don't mention axillary racemes. C. harrysmithii is also listed as being very close to elata... perhaps these "species" are too finely divided.
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

Pascal B

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #208 on: September 08, 2010, 05:26:01 PM »
Due to the wet weather in Holland this plant is still going strong and giving a good second flowering. Bought as omeiana but turned out to be Corydalis elata as determined by Magnus Liden. According to him: "apart from obscure vegetative differences, C. omeiana can be recognised when the flower is in bud by the lower petal embracing the upper, and the rather large rugate sepals that fall early"

« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 05:28:42 PM by Pascal B »

TheOnionMan

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Re: Corydalis 2010
« Reply #209 on: November 20, 2010, 10:32:41 PM »
Does anyone with a copy of the Liden-Zetterlund book on Corydalis, willing to take a photo of the cover and post it here or email it to me, and allow permission to use the photo to post back to Amazon; they're lacking a photo of the book for some reason on their site.  Thanks.
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

 

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