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Author Topic: Allium 2011  (Read 33404 times)

Maggi Young

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #240 on: July 09, 2011, 10:13:54 PM »
Hi, Wietse, thank you!  :)
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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Onion

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #241 on: July 10, 2011, 12:00:04 PM »
Wietse,

the "hedge" of the red A. ampeloprasum Purple Mystery is more than a dream.  :P :P
Enjoy your pictures. So many different species and cultivars for the "gardendreams".
Uli Würth, Northwest of Germany Zone 7 b - 8a
Bulbs are my love (Onions) and shrubs and trees are my job

Rafa

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #242 on: July 13, 2011, 01:29:42 PM »
what an allium fields!

This is Allium paczoskianum, from my friend S. Banquetow

Very nice A. paczoskianum Rafa, one I've seen lots of photos of but one rarely seen in cultivation, it has a "flavum-esque" look to it, a subtle explosion of buff colored flowers.  Do you know the original source of this plant from your friend?

These plants are original collected in Aleksandrovskoe, Stavropol territory, Russia, and I grew by seeds, Sergey sent me some time ago. He has very interesting Caucasian Alliums.

Magnar

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #243 on: July 13, 2011, 11:40:59 PM »
Allium insubricum doing very well here  this week,

Magnar in Harstad, North Norway

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TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #244 on: July 14, 2011, 03:08:35 AM »
Allium insubricum doing very well here  this week,


Oooh, very nice!
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
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Regelian

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #245 on: July 14, 2011, 08:09:18 AM »
Magnar,

a very lovely colour. Hope you get seed for the exchange.  ;D
Jamie Vande
Cologne
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wmel

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #246 on: July 17, 2011, 01:35:17 PM »
Some photos from today. There are still a lot of alliums flowering

ampeloprasum Hairy Friend 17-07-2011.JPG
ampeloprasum Pink Lady 17-07-2011.JPG
angulosum 17-07-2011.JPG
flavum 17-07-2011.JPG
govanianum 17-07-2011.JPG
  This allium I received as seed. It Looks like allium tuberosum a lot, but this one is flowering 3-4 weeks earlier, and is much higher then a. tuberosum. I dont think it's a. govanianum, but I don't know what it is then.
lencoranicum 17-07-2011 1.JPG
pulchellum Olympic Mist 17-07-2011 2.JPG
round spaerocephalon Italy 17-07-2011 2.JPG
  This allium I found in Riva Italy by the Lake Garda. It looks a lot like a. spaerocephalon, but it's flowering about 3 weeks later and it has completely round flowers, What could this be???
senescens 17-07-2011.JPG
texanum 17-07-2011.JPG
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 01:37:02 PM by wmel »
Wietse Mellema, Klutenweg 39 I, Creil  Netherlands
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bulborum

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #247 on: July 17, 2011, 02:27:16 PM »
Looks like allium guttatum

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TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #248 on: July 17, 2011, 02:35:47 PM »
Nice series Wietse!

Is the A. pulchellum 'Olympic Mist' originally from Paige Woodward at Pacific Rim Nursery?  I grew plants from her identified as Allium flavum var. tauricum "blue florm" or some such identification; looked just like yours, a densely-flowered head of maroon-purple color with a bluish cast, a striking color.  Some plants were a milk white with a blue-purple tinge... they were clearly forms of Allium pulchellum; both lovely unique colors.  They only persisted a couple years with me, sadly I no longer have it.

Allium govanianum is a synonym of Allium humile, from China, India and Pakistan.  Allium humile is listed as having scapes 5-25 cm; you guess correctly that your plant is probably misidentified.  I've grown many forms of Allium tuberosum, they can vary quite a bit, including stem height, and bloom time can vary by a few weeks, but generally they are late summer bloomers.  Your plants might me A. ramosum, which blooms mid summer.  Can you take a close-up photo of the flowers, and a leaf cross-section closeup?

Regarding Allium sphaerocephalon, it is also highly variable, although mostly represented by one form mass-produced by bulb growers.  There are 4 subspecies, and indication just how variable the plants are.  Brian Mathew in his "A Review of Allium section Allium" monograph says "A. sphaerocephalon exhibits a considerable amount of variation".  The flower head is described as "spherical, or broadly ovoid", thus they can be round shaped as in the plant you show, or the oblong egg-shaped head that we customarily see with the mass-produced form. Between the 4 varieties of A. sphaerocephalon, the flowering period is collectively given as May-September (although June-July is most typical).  Variation...variation...variation.

Going through Flora Italiana, the only species your plant is likely to be is Allium sphaerocephalon... check out the numerous photos in the link below (scroll down to see them), it illustrates quite a bit of variation, including fully round-headed forms. Note that flowering time is given as May to August.
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_sphaerocephalon.htm




« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 03:02:43 PM by TheOnionMan »
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
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TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #249 on: July 17, 2011, 02:37:09 PM »
Looks like allium guttatum

Roland

I don't see any A. guttatum in that series of photos. :-[
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #250 on: July 17, 2011, 02:49:47 PM »
We received a few years ago seed from the U.S.A. as allium cneorum, and we were told it woud be the nord-american form of a. obliquum. (NARGS seed list 2002-2003).  After growing a few years we saw it was different from obliquum in a lot of things:

bulbs of obliquum are pinkish and cneorum was pure white
flowering of cneorum is 2-3 weeks later than obliquum
obliquum has much bigger flowers
obliquum is much higher

So, seeing the difference, with the story, some buyers wanted to sell it in there catalog.
We never checked if name or story were correct..... sorry

Wietse,  I'm late getting back to this, but I wanted to stress the importance of trialing many forms of a species and observing variation (and of course, trying to exempt the misnomers from the process).  When I see the comparison of Allium obliquum above, I am reminded of Allium cernuum:

bulbs of cernuum are typically red, but go from blood red, to pink, to white.
flowering time of cernuum, depending of form, spans 8 weeks of difference
cernuum has forms with very large flowers, to medium, and small flowers.
cernuum has giant (tall) forms, medium height forms, to dwarf forms.

I could say the same about many alliums, such as A. saxatile, stellatum, flavum, pulchellum, paniculatum, ericetorum (I have a nice robust form coming into bloom soon), and most others.
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #251 on: July 17, 2011, 03:11:26 PM »
Quiz time!

Look at the following link for Allium narcissiflorum in Flora Italiana; it shows some wonderful clumps of this fine allium in mountain scenarios; scanning through the included images, can everyone spot the misidentification that somehow slipped into their presentation of photos ;)
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_narcissiflorum.htm
Mark McDonough
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TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #252 on: July 17, 2011, 03:22:04 PM »
Looking through Flora Italiana again, they have a good gallery of Allium trifoliatum, showing some variability in the plants.  
http://luirig.altervista.org/schedeit/ae/allium_trifoliatum.htm

Going back to my investigation of what was the underlying species of the Kwekerij De Schullhorn  Allium 'Cameleon', I had narrowed it down to the most probably ID as Allium longanum, a species very closely related to A. trifoliatum.  
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5164.msg202959#msg202959

Looking through the A. trifoliatum gallery, I must say there is strong resemblance to the 'Cameleon' selection, with both A. longanum and A. trifoliatum having some forms that age from white to pink, and the broadish basal leaves that are "fringed" with cilia.
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

johnw

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #253 on: July 17, 2011, 03:31:44 PM »
Mark - Are Allium insubricum and narcissiflorum hardy with you?  I have grown both from seed many many times and invariably get Allium cyathophorum v. farreri.

johnw
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TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2011
« Reply #254 on: July 17, 2011, 04:29:12 PM »
Mark - Are Allium insubricum and narcissiflorum hardy with you?  I have grown both from seed many many times and invariably get Allium cyathophorum v. farreri.

johnw

Yes John, they're both hardy (the true species), although I have a very hard time growing them, and invariably lose them, mostly to heat and drought I think.  When I lived near Seattle Washington, I grew a number of forms of each, and I saw spectacular large clumps in some gardens, mine never grew quite so luxuriantly >:(

From a SRGC member who shared seed with me last summer, I have a good crop of seedlings coming along this year, I hope that I found a cool enough location for the seedlings to prosper.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 07:18:17 PM by TheOnionMan »
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net