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Author Topic: Are they fertile?  (Read 35419 times)

Lesley Cox

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Are they fertile?
« on: June 20, 2011, 06:23:49 AM »
Today I received a small packet of what is, ostensibly, Hylomecon japonicum from a generous Forumist who had had to post from the other side of the world to reach me. I don't like to think her time and effort and money were wasted but instead of the small black seeds I expected, maybe about the size of Meconopsis or Lewisia, there was just a small smear of black dust. Does anyone know what these seeds should look like? She was doubtful herself. I'll sow them, maybe over something else but I'd like to know what the seeds should be like. Thanks.

Other times I've had seed of this lovely poppy relative, they have always been one of two Stylophorums. :'(
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 06:30:34 AM »
This site includes a photo of a pod and some seeds.

http://smith.edu/gardens/bgilib/web/imageFrameset.php?latin_name=Hylomecon+japonicum&cat=1

============

the picture has been removed pending proper identification
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 06:39:16 PM by Diane Whitehead »
Diane Whitehead        Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Pascal B

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 10:04:43 AM »
Unfortunately that site does not show true Hylomecon japonica but one of the imposters. Seedpods of H. japonica are ~ 2.5 cm long, thin and not hairy. As a matter of fact, there is no hairy part at all on the true species! Seeds are indeed small & black and somewhat flattened seeds but definitely not dustlike, the ones on my plants were already dispersed before I knew it about a fortnight ago so I am afraid Lesley hasn't received the correct item. And apparantly again.

From what I was told, this year through the AGS seedex the imposter was send again so hopefully people at the seedex can recognise the wrong stuff and disappointments can be prevented. Or donors realise they are not sending the right seeds to the seedex. Each pod contains about 20 seeds and should be moist packed because they loose viability fast is my experience, after the seeds are dispersed all that is left of the seedpod is 2 threads connected at the top.

Gunilla

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 10:53:57 AM »
Sorry Lesley, if the the seeds ? I sent you aren't viable, but I did warn you  ;). It's a pity I can't send you a plant instead.   My plants are true Hylomecon japonica and the seed pods looked just like Pascal describes them, very thin, 2-3 cm and not a hair on them.  Inside were tiny small black grains and I had my doubts but I have never collected seeds from this plant before so didn't know how they should look like.  
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Pascal B

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 11:06:47 AM »
Lesley, then I would still sow them and give it a try, usually seedpods of H. japonica abort when they are not fertilized, of the 50+ flowers I only had about 10 that produced a seedpod so the seeds might be viable, I have not yet seen a seedpod without fertile seeds. At least you know you got the right species and not the imposter... ;)

Gunilla

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 11:14:58 AM »
Here's another site with pictures of hairy seedpods. Obviously not the right thing.
http://theseedsite.co.uk/db10a.html
Gunilla   Ekeby in the south of Sweden

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Diane Whitehead

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011, 04:45:37 PM »
I sent Pascal's comment to Smith College.

a very short while later:  the plant's picture has been removed until it is properly identified.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 06:35:39 PM by Diane Whitehead »
Diane Whitehead        Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Diane Clement

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011, 07:45:20 PM »
From what I was told, this year through the AGS seedex the imposter was send again so hopefully people at the seedex can recognise the wrong stuff and disappointments can be prevented.

Thanks, Pascal for this information.  I'll look out for it this year.
Diane
Acting Seed Manager
AGS Seed Exchange
Diane Clement, Wolverhampton, UK
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Maggi Young

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011, 08:00:49 PM »
My Hylomecon japonicum japonica did not flower well this year but I found a seed pod still hanging on.
Here are photos of the pod and of it opened.
It is not very big.... I'm sure in better years it would be larger.... and the seed may not be fertile though it does look fat if  quite small.  :-\
The pod is smooth. As you can see, once it is open there are the two "strings" left.

If it is useful to anyone I can send the  full size photo files to show good magnification
Click the pix to enlarge....
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 08:05:37 PM by Maggi Young »
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Gunilla

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 08:32:20 PM »
I must say that your seeds Maggi, look more like fertile seeds than the ones I found. Are they hard? 
Gunilla   Ekeby in the south of Sweden

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Maggi Young

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 08:37:41 PM »
Well, they are too small to be hard, if you know what I mean.  They are firm enough, I suppose, but not exactly very three dimensional!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 11:57:12 AM by Ian Y »
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!


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Pascal B

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 08:44:44 PM »
From what I was told, this year through the AGS seedex the imposter was send again so hopefully people at the seedex can recognise the wrong stuff and disappointments can be prevented.

Thanks, Pascal for this information.  I'll look out for it this year.
Diane
Acting Seed Manager
AGS Seed Exchange


Sorry Diane, didn't mean it like this, I doubt the AGS seedex is the only seedex with Stylophorum seeds send out as imposters for Hylomecon. It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge to identify species by their seeds and no one expects that from a seedex. As a matter of fact, apparantly it is even difficult to recognise Hylomecon at the plantlevel......, the rootcause of it all. Because each year I fail to collect the seeds in time I requested the seeds of it too so I could send it to a friend of mine that I had to disappoint each year. I never closely examined the seedpacket I got and forwarded it straight away. He showed me a picture of the seedlings so now I had no choice but to send him a division as a peace-offer...... ;)

Diane Clement

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2011, 09:49:23 PM »
Sorry Diane, didn't mean it like this, I doubt the AGS seedex is the only seedex with Stylophorum seeds send out as imposters for Hylomecon. It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge to identify species by their seeds and no one expects that from a seedex. As a matter of fact, apparantly it is even difficult to recognise Hylomecon at the plantlevel......, the rootcause of it all. Because each year I fail to collect the seeds in time I requested the seeds of it too so I could send it to a friend of mine that I had to disappoint each year. I never closely examined the seedpacket I got and forwarded it straight away. He showed me a picture of the seedlings so now I had no choice but to send him a division as a peace-offer...... ;)  

No problem, Pascal.  I'm very happy to have any information to help our continuing process of trying to improve the seed list year on year, which can only be done by sharing knowledge.  
I'm rather concerned that I have the plant in question and I haven't looked whether it has set seed this year.  I'll check tomorrow.
(Picture below taken in April)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 01:29:17 PM by Diane Clement »
Diane Clement, Wolverhampton, UK
Director, AGS Seed Exchange

Lesley Cox

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 10:18:06 PM »
I'll certainly sow the seed, just in case. The true plant is such a lovely thing and I did have it once from a local source, no longer available, but I found it was exceeding drought sensitive, even more than Meconopsis. The Stylophorum pods are rather shorter and plumper than those illustrated above. Thanks everyone for your help and comments.
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

Lesley Cox

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Re: Are they fertile?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2011, 10:40:27 PM »
Thankyou Maggi. Although these are small, they are much bigger than what is in my seed packet. It is curious how difficult it is to get the true and fertile seed of some species. Hylomecon is one of them.
Lesley Cox - near Dunedin, lower east coast, South Island of New Zealand - Zone 9

 

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