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Author Topic: Allium 2012  (Read 13533 times)

Lvandelft

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #120 on: July 28, 2012, 06:42:37 PM »
Your foto is showing allium flavum var nanum, and it shows the plant as it normaly is.
Thanks Wietse, I'm sure that the person who showed the pot will read these lines, otherwise I'll tell him next Monday :)
Luit van Delft, right in the heart of the beautiful flowerbulb district, Noordwijkerhout, Holland.

Palustris

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #121 on: July 29, 2012, 04:47:35 PM »
Anyone know anything about Allium loratum?
TIA

Maggi Young

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #122 on: July 29, 2012, 05:43:20 PM »
Not a whole lot, Eric.   :-\    I think it is one of those names  that bulbs are offered under, but which turn out not to be A. loratum.

I think the real thing is about six inches tall ( 15cms)with quite little bulbs, white flowered and from pretty high altitudes  in the Himalayas.......... is that any use?


There are a couple of links in the Forum .....
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=8297.msg224726#msg224726
From MarkMcDonough
...."just a well-established horticultural misnomer/mis-ID that lives on in perpetuity, similar to the way the NOT-Allium-loratum is well established in the large commercial bulb trade, while the true dwarf white Allium loratum lives in quiet alpine solitude away from any bulb farms."

From Luit VanDelft
 Scans  here: http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg203863#msg203863  from The Journal of Botany, British and Foreign, article entitled "On the Alliums of India, China, and Japan", by J.G. Baker, Vol.III page 290, published 1874

and of The Flora of British India by Sir J.D. Hooker, Vol. VI. Orchideae to Cyperaceae, published in 1894




Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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Thomas Huber

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #123 on: July 29, 2012, 06:01:49 PM »
Thomas, it looks like the yellowish one has flat leaves, which led to my immediate impression it is Allium ericetorum.  Some photos will show white flowers tinged pinkish, but most often this species has pale yellow flowers in tight heads.  Mine is in flower now.

Allium saxatile has nearly rounded or terete leaves, these bloom at the same time as ericetorum (now); I have several forms in flower now.  There are yellowish forms of A. saxatile (aka synonym A. marschallianum), although more commonly the variable saxatile has blooms of white to pink.

By the way, did you make the trip in search of Allium narcissiflorum?

Hi Mark.
You're right - I've just observed the leaves of my yellow Allium and they are surely flat, not rounded - so this makes them to A. ericetorum, thanks for your help!

Yes, I've made the trip to the A. narcissiuflorum habitat - Chris and I have been there with the Mountainbikes, but as we assumed, it was too early in the end of March. We were right to find hundreds of white Crocus versicolor and thousands of Narcissus pseudonarcissus, but we didn't find this wonderful Allium  :-[  Weather wasn't fortunate with us, on 2000m we had only 4C and 10 meters of sight so we decided to turn around and repeat the tour on one of our next journeys...
Thomas Huber, Neustadt - Germany (230m)

Palustris

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #124 on: July 29, 2012, 06:09:57 PM »
Thanks  Maggi. The bulbs certainly are small and the supplier is  more likely to have the real thing than most. Question is how to grow it to see what it really is.

Maggi Young

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #125 on: July 29, 2012, 06:17:43 PM »
More about this onion and it's mistaken ID here :
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=1315.msg203080#msg203080 - doesn't seem to be any advice about growing the darn thing though!
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

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Stephenb

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #126 on: July 29, 2012, 07:30:26 PM »
I got this as Allium aciphyllum - could it be the real thing?
Stephen
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TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #127 on: July 29, 2012, 07:50:23 PM »
Thanks  Maggi. The bulbs certainly are small and the supplier is  more likely to have the real thing than most. Question is how to grow it to see what it really is.

Maggi: a good summary of past discussion on misnomer Allium loratum, thanks.

Palustris:  I am of the firm opinion that Allium loratum is not in cultivation whatsoever.  I don't believe any supplier will be "more likely to have the real thing" because the misidentification is so old and entrenched, that it is impossible to find anything that begins to look close to the originally described plant.
Mark McDonough
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antennaria at charter.net

TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #128 on: July 29, 2012, 08:37:30 PM »
I got this as Allium aciphyllum - could it be the real thing?


Stephen, is your Allium blooming now?  It reminds me of Allium amplectans, particularly in the way the fading blooms "invest" the ovary, becoming papery and wrapping themselves around the ovary, although that species a spring bloomer. The stamens are supposed to be 1.25 x tepal length, on your plant they look slighter shorter than tepals?  Allium aciphyllum has dark brown reticulated bulb tunics... what do the bulbs and leaves look like?

Here's the Flora of China illustration (notice the long slender reticulated bulbs):
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60235&flora_id=2

« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 08:39:22 PM by TheOnionMan »
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

Stephenb

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2012, 09:26:42 AM »
Sorry, Mark, I missed your reply - I will check at the weekend...

In the meantime, here's a new one I got as Allium stenodon - it seems about right from a quick check of FOC. What do you think?

Stephen
Malvik, Norway
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TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #130 on: August 04, 2012, 08:14:15 PM »
Sorry, Mark, I missed your reply - I will check at the weekend...

In the meantime, here's a new one I got as Allium stenodon - it seems about right from a quick check of FOC. What do you think?

Oooh, that likes like the right plant, indeed matching FOC, right down to the long teeth on alternate filaments, and the flat leaves.  Beautiful coloring, it is rarer than rare to see this in clutivation, where did you get it? It is once listed as a variety of A. plurifoliatum.

Soon I will post a photo of Allium henryi, just coming into bloom now, in the FOC Allium key, this species is in a couplet with A. stenodon, so stenodon and henryi are closely related.  My A. henryi came as A. cyathophorum from Chen Yi about 10 years ago, but turned out to be this light blue species,  In previous years something (a rabbit) nip off most of the flower stems, hope that doesn't happen this year.  I will send you a PM about stenodon/henryi seed swap  ;)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 08:21:29 PM by TheOnionMan »
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net

Stephenb

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #131 on: August 04, 2012, 08:37:36 PM »
Wow!

Sounds like a good deal  :)
Stephen
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Stephenb

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #132 on: August 04, 2012, 08:43:58 PM »
Interesting that cyathophorum can also result in rarities not just the other way round or is cyathophorum (i.e., not farreri) rare in culture?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 09:53:18 PM by Stephenb »
Stephen
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Stephenb

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #133 on: August 04, 2012, 09:56:01 PM »
Stephen, is your Allium blooming now?  It reminds me of Allium amplectans, particularly in the way the fading blooms "invest" the ovary, becoming papery and wrapping themselves around the ovary, although that species a spring bloomer. The stamens are supposed to be 1.25 x tepal length, on your plant they look slighter shorter than tepals?  Allium aciphyllum has dark brown reticulated bulb tunics... what do the bulbs and leaves look like?

Here's the Flora of China illustration (notice the long slender reticulated bulbs):
http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=60235&flora_id=2


Well it's not that - it is flowering now (just about over). Here's a couple more pictures - yes stamens are bout 0.75 x tepal length
Stephen
Malvik, Norway
Eating my way through the world's 15,000+ edible species
Age: Lower end of the 20-25,000 day range

TheOnionMan

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Re: Allium 2012
« Reply #134 on: August 05, 2012, 02:49:17 AM »
Well it's not that - it is flowering now (just about over). Here's a couple more pictures - yes stamens are bout 0.75 x tepal length


Stephen, I think you definitely have Allium amplectans, it has small rounded bulbs with a reddish membranous bulb coat, here's a link to photo of 4 allium species that I bare-rooted and profiled, Item G is Allium amplectans.  In case anyone is wondering, Item E is A. przewalskianum, F is A. heldreichii, and H is a dwarf white form of Allium schoenoprasum.
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/Allium/Allium_profiles_4.jpg
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 02:58:36 AM by TheOnionMan »
Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, USA (near the New Hampshire border)
USDA Zone 5
antennaria at charter.net