We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button


Author Topic: White flowering Eranthis  (Read 15340 times)

YT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
  • Country: jp
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2012, 06:57:39 AM »
Eranthis byunsanensis is a synonym of E. pinnatifida by The Plant List (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2791909), so I put 'cf.' before specific epithet about the file name of attached pics ;) In anyway, this eranthis looks different to E. pinnatifida particularly by its petal (nectary) colour and shape for me ??? The picture size is larger than usual for ID :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 07:23:33 AM by YT »
Tatsuo Y
By the Pacific coast, central part of main island, Japan

Peppa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
  • Country: us
  • Always diggin'! :)
    • My Garden Blog
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2012, 08:36:58 AM »
Eranthis byunsanensis is a synonym of E. pinnatifida by The Plant List (http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-2791909), so I put 'cf.' before specific epithet about the file name of attached pics ;) In anyway, this eranthis looks different to E. pinnatifida particularly by its petal (nectary) colour and shape for me ??? The picture size is larger than usual for ID :)


I was actually looking at some sites that listed Eranthis byunsanensis today. This is called 'hinamatsuri-sou' in Japan, correct? I can see an obvious difference between it and E. pinnatifida, specifically the color of the green nectary. What about the flower size? Are they bigger than pinnatifida?
Peppa

From the beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA,
where summer is mild and dry
but winter is dark and very wet...
USDA Zone 7b or 8 (depends on the year)
http://seattlepuppy.blog82.fc2.com

WimB

  • always digs deeper...
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2626
  • Country: be
    • Vlaamse Rotsplanten Vereniging
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2012, 10:02:19 AM »
Wonderful plant YT,

that's another white flowering form which is not very distinct.  ::) According to the "The Korean Journal of Plant Taxonomy" there is a genetic difference,
Quote
For the ITS phylogeny, E. pungdoensis could not be distinguished from E. byunsanensis. However, the clade of E. byunsanensis, including E. pungdoensis, was separated from Eranthis pinnatifida of Japan, which has a distinct ribotype and forms a sister group.

Or is it the same as Eranthis stellata (??): http://feelgreen55.blogspot.com/2010/03/shibateranthis-stellata-eranthis.html

My best guess would be that (almost) all white flowering species (E. stellata, E. pinnatifida, E. sibirica, E. albiflora (and E. byunsanensis)) have the same parent plant and separated into different species quite recently. When the plants got dispersed (for example by geodispersal when Japan separated from the mainland) the different species changed according to their environment (resulting in visible changes for example, like between E. sibirica and E. pinnatifida or only on the genetic level, like between E. pinnatifida and E. byunsanensis).
Wim Boens - Secretary VRV (Flemish Rock Garden Society) - Seed exchange manager Crocus Group
Wingene Belgium zone 8a

Flemish Rock Garden society (VRV): http://www.vrvforum.be/
Facebook page VRV: http://www.facebook.com/pages/VRV-Vlaamse-Rotsplanten-Vereniging/351755598192270

YT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
  • Country: jp
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2012, 01:30:51 PM »
I was actually looking at some sites that listed Eranthis byunsanensis today. This is called 'hinamatsuri-sou' in Japan, correct? I can see an obvious difference between it and E. pinnatifida, specifically the color of the green nectary. What about the flower size? Are they bigger than pinnatifida?


Peppa, yes, this eranthis is called 'ひなまつり草(Hina-matsuri-sou)' in Japan and green nectary is definitely unique character of this species.

Wonderful plant YT,

that's another white flowering form which is not very distinct.  ::) According to the "The Korean Journal of Plant Taxonomy" there is a genetic difference,
Quote
For the ITS phylogeny, E. pungdoensis could not be distinguished from E. byunsanensis. However, the clade of E. byunsanensis, including E. pungdoensis, was separated from Eranthis pinnatifida of Japan, which has a distinct ribotype and forms a sister group.

Or is it the same as Eranthis stellata (??): http://feelgreen55.blogspot.com/2010/03/shibateranthis-stellata-eranthis.html

My best guess would be that (almost) all white flowering species (E. stellata, E. pinnatifida, E. sibirica, E. albiflora (and E. byunsanensis)) have the same parent plant and separated into different species quite recently. When the plants got dispersed (for example by geodispersal when Japan separated from the mainland) the different species changed according to their environment (resulting in visible changes for example, like between E. sibirica and E. pinnatifida or only on the genetic level, like between E. pinnatifida and E. byunsanensis).


Wim, thank you for the interesting references and good opinion :) As Janis wrote, the imported tubers from such countries are usually bad quality, so this mysterious eranthis plants marketed in Japan now are all propagated by seeds from very few survived plants.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 01:45:25 PM by YT »
Tatsuo Y
By the Pacific coast, central part of main island, Japan

WimB

  • always digs deeper...
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2626
  • Country: be
    • Vlaamse Rotsplanten Vereniging
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2012, 02:24:47 PM »
Whatever the name, they are very beautiful plants. Your E. byunsanensis is a very good form!!
Wim Boens - Secretary VRV (Flemish Rock Garden Society) - Seed exchange manager Crocus Group
Wingene Belgium zone 8a

Flemish Rock Garden society (VRV): http://www.vrvforum.be/
Facebook page VRV: http://www.facebook.com/pages/VRV-Vlaamse-Rotsplanten-Vereniging/351755598192270

Maggi Young

  • Forum Dogsbody
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41489
  • Country: scotland
  • "There's often a clue"
    • International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2012, 02:30:11 PM »
Whatever the name, they are very beautiful plants. Your E. byunsanensis is a very good form!!

 :) We were thinking exactly the same thing here! These white eranthis are quite delightful... most charming and delicate little things of great beauty and a pleasure to see the pictures. 
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!


"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."

YT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
  • Country: jp
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2012, 01:47:01 PM »
Wim, thanks! Some more white eranthis are just sprouting now ;)

Maggi, it is also my pleasure to share and see pics with forumists :) :) :)
Tatsuo Y
By the Pacific coast, central part of main island, Japan

YT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
  • Country: jp
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2012, 10:18:52 AM »
Eranthis pinnatifida, ex. Chichibu, Saitama, Japan. Close to northern limit of this species.
Tatsuo Y
By the Pacific coast, central part of main island, Japan

art600

  • Travels light, travels far
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2012, 11:05:57 AM »
I think every image is stunning and even though bulbs are my passion, I could find room for these wonderful plants - and hepatica   :) ;D :)
  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 11:21:42 AM by Maggi Young »
Arthur Nicholls

Anything bulbous    North Kent

Brian Ellis

  • Brian the Britisher
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5170
  • Country: england
  • 'Dropoholic
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2012, 11:26:37 AM »
Beautiful, Tatsuo-san, thank you for your wonderful pictures.
Brian Ellis, Brooke, Norfolk UK. altitude 30m Mintemp -8C

WimB

  • always digs deeper...
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2626
  • Country: be
    • Vlaamse Rotsplanten Vereniging
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2012, 01:23:54 PM »
Very beautiful, Tatsuo.  Love those plants. You're a very good photographer, by the way!
Wim Boens - Secretary VRV (Flemish Rock Garden Society) - Seed exchange manager Crocus Group
Wingene Belgium zone 8a

Flemish Rock Garden society (VRV): http://www.vrvforum.be/
Facebook page VRV: http://www.facebook.com/pages/VRV-Vlaamse-Rotsplanten-Vereniging/351755598192270

YT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
  • Country: jp
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2012, 04:48:31 PM »
Art, you are forgetting most important thing!!! Go to a travel agent and book a flight to Japan in mid-April for collecting seeds of those ;D ;D ;)

Brian and Wim, cheers :) I bought a new camera last year and it works very well ;D
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 04:50:56 PM by YT »
Tatsuo Y
By the Pacific coast, central part of main island, Japan

WimB

  • always digs deeper...
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2626
  • Country: be
    • Vlaamse Rotsplanten Vereniging
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2012, 06:12:06 PM »
Brian and Wim, cheers :) I bought a new camera last year and it works very well ;D

Good picture of your camera. :) Now, how did you do that  ???  ;D ;)
Wim Boens - Secretary VRV (Flemish Rock Garden Society) - Seed exchange manager Crocus Group
Wingene Belgium zone 8a

Flemish Rock Garden society (VRV): http://www.vrvforum.be/
Facebook page VRV: http://www.facebook.com/pages/VRV-Vlaamse-Rotsplanten-Vereniging/351755598192270

art600

  • Travels light, travels far
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2012, 07:09:39 PM »
Art, you are forgetting most important thing!!! Go to a travel agent and book a flight to Japan in mid-April for collecting seeds of those ;D ;D ;)

Tatsuo

I would happily pay for you to collect - have already booked aholiday in Kazakhstan  ;D
Arthur Nicholls

Anything bulbous    North Kent

YT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
  • Country: jp
Re: White flowering Eranthis
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2012, 09:38:47 AM »
Wim,  ;D ;D ;D

Art, have a nice holyday in Kazakhstan :) Looking forward to your exciting report at this forum :D

A E. pinnatifida seedling, with greenish sepals.
Tatsuo Y
By the Pacific coast, central part of main island, Japan

 

In Association with Amazon.co.uk


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942